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  • No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

    New changes:

    The Project Reality Team has been conducting during this month of November a public beta test on a select number of community servers to test gameplay changes to the spawning mechanics of the mod. You can read more about it in the previous news post.

    The feedback has been very constructive and we appreciate everybody taking the time to test it out and give their opinions. Now we want to try some additions to the previous changes.

    The changes that will remain the same are:
    1. Lowered the spawn penalty for death by 25% (maximum of 45 seconds instead of 60 seconds).
    2. Raised the maximum number of Forward Outposts available from 4 to 5.
    3. Forward Outposts can now be built with one supply crate instead of two (all other deployables still need two).


    The new additions in v0.874C are:
    1. Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed.
    2. Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close.
    3. Limited infantry kits require a squad of 3 to be requested (Automatic Rifleman, Medic, Grenadier, Rifleman AT and Marksman).
    4. Forward Outposts can be built 200m apart (decrease from 300m).
    5. Other deployable assets (HMGs, AAs, Foxholes, etc) can be placed up to 200m from the Forward Outpost (increase from 150m).


    As mentioned in the previous announcement, the primary goal is to see the average player's focus shift from Rally Point placement to Forward Outpost placement, something that the entire team will benefit from.

    But with these new additions, if your Squad Leader and one more soldier retreats away from the enemy after a harsh engagement, you can keep an extended presence in the area. If all fails, you will still have to depend on the placed Forward Outposts and your team's transportation, so be smart and keep those alive if you want to be successful.

    We really encourage everyone to give it a thoughtful try, and think about the overall team benefits. Also think of ways your gameplay will need to change for this to work, and how you can help others, especially with land transport. Always have a medic in your squad, and keep him alive, as he can keep your squad alive.

    Like before, the changes are server side, meaning you don't need anything installed to try them out, just join one of the following participating servers:
    • Tactical Gamer - North America
    • Tactics & Teamwork - UK
    • GSA - BigD - Australia
    • 10th Community - Germany


    These servers will have the version "0.874C" in their server name during the test.

    We would like to encourage all our players to try and join these servers during the rest of November, and report their feedback in the appropriate forum areas.

    - The Project Reality Team

    Please feel free to post your feedback regarding these changes, both speculative and actual game play feedback, below.

    "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

  • #2
    Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

    "Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed"

    First thing that came to mind when I read this was that the squad leader along with one man could just sit back from an objective and keep deploying the RP leaving the rest of the squad to assault, something which I used to do on vanilla, but hopefully the second point (Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close), as ambiguous as it is (What is defined as close?) should counteract that.

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    • #3
      Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

      Looking forward to try this. Though it was getting quite nice with no rallies at all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

        3. Limited infantry kits require a squad of 3 to be requested (Automatic Rifleman, Medic, Grenadier, Rifleman AT and Marksman).
        I was hoping it would be limited to atleast 4 people, but 5 would have been the best.

        SL
        Medic
        Support
        Rifleman
        Special Kit




        TG-6th|Almightylion

        "It's feedom for everybody or freedom for nobody"" - Malcolm X

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        • #5
          Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

          Originally posted by andretmzt View Post
          "Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed"

          First thing that came to mind when I read this was that the squad leader along with one man could just sit back from an objective and keep deploying the RP leaving the rest of the squad to assault, something which I used to do on vanilla, but hopefully the second point (Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close), as ambiguous as it is (What is defined as close?) should counteract that.
          The changes look positive :) I think those who might be harbouring the impure thought you described should remember the 'strive for realism' piece. A squad leader hanging back and spawning infantry (like the queen in Aliens) would not fall under striving for realism :)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

            Very, very nice. Aside from the vague "close" mechanic, it looks like we might have our middle ground. So long as the SL and another lucky bastard get away, they can return to trouble you, but it won't be supertardrush 64.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

              I think one of the more intriguing changes is the reduction in distance between FOs and the increase in distance that defensive positions can be constructed from the FO. The possibilities presented by this change are pretty awesome....

              "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                I like the list except for one thing:

                No overrun reduction or change in how many people are required to overrun. I'd like that upped to four if the distance is the same.

                I think the 30 second rally means that either the SLa nd a guy have to hang back (reducing the fight) or the SL and another guy have to fall back to regroup (giving the defenders time to regroup).

                I don't like the idea that the SL needs to stay out of combat like back when we had SL spawn. I didn't like SL then because I just had to hide the whole time. I know the officer shouldn't be the first in, but I don't like having to hang back completely. I'd rather see any squad member be able to place a rally as long as two members were present so the squad can regroup (although then a SAW and scoped riflemen would simply be the spawn point...).

                Last thought: Make it a 10 minute gap between placement but any two squad members can do so. Less rush, more sticking together.
                |TG-6th|Snooggums

                Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                  It sounds like someone has got plans!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                    Hmm. Does sound a positive step forward. I am looking forward to this and believe this a good step forward in game dynamics. I'm pleased with this step.

                    Some comments though, pre-playing.

                    Although the 'enemies close'part is ambiguous as said, I am sure people will figure it out by testing pretty quickly.

                    A 30 second time limit does sound to have advantages. newly arrived sm's joining, for example. And I do prefer the general dynamic of needing to keep yourself alive and the immersion that gives, that no-rallies give.

                    This may sound like there is no pleasing some people, but that is not my point nor in fact, how I feel. Disadvantages though, off the top of my head is I also can imagine a general game tactic of the SL and one other keeping back to continue allowing spawn, as, as said before, this was a key BF2 tactic to keep throwing people at a target. I am bearing in mind not just this server but general gameplay PR wide.

                    At the least, it sounds it would also force the SL to sit near the rear of the section whilst moving, perhaps with the tail-end-charlie, or, if I was to consider it, 4th in line, the medic 5th, and the tail-end bringing up the rear incase of an attack from behind. I think we may be back to blobbing out a rally from an SL's behind every 30 seconds then. Perhaps this is too short a time? Maybe a minute and a half time limit is more able to remove the 'SL assblob' (yes I am trying to make new mode concept word phrases) that would be the SL doing a proverbial number two of rallies all the way to the fight. This could be a new radar, as we have seen before when the rally disapears infront of our eyes.

                    If a minute and a half is too long maybe 1 minute will do it? (after 30 seconds. SM: " New rally"? Sl, "Ah yeah thanks. 'Beep beeep beep', "hmm can't set rally, enemies close, move back guys.. oh, no.. it's coming! get out of there!... 'beep beep beep beep bepbpb'!.." It also allows to let the SL concentrate on other things other than passing rallies and making stupid references to Alien, at least if you join my squad).

                    Not saying I am going to bother with the above but I am sure it will feel like eating a lot of bananas for the SL, the psychological urge to please SM's and therefore the above could become more laible to be in people's behaviour to the point it becomes common practice. Therefore, to increase the rally disapearing time to 1min 30 secs may sound to run counter to the desire of the rally being removed in general it may may work more in harmony with the aim of the DEVS, which is non-rally reliance and the overt impression that gives to game dynamics, that a 30 second disapearing time may seem appropriate to do with this but may not actually do.

                    We shall see. These are only pre-game thoughts anyway, and such a tweak with all in place would be a good thing as far as I can see. The rest sounds good as it stands.
                    Last edited by Taip3n; 11-18-2009, 09:58 AM. Reason: ellaboration

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                      The 30 second rally timer is good. So many times I have joined mid game and the squad was already in the field. I have done alot of sitting in the spawn screen for five plus minutes waiting for my squad to either build a fob, rebuild an fob, or die. Every game I've played there's been at least one 5 plus minute wait in the spawn screen for a regrouping point. Depending on Squad leaders orders I would rather wait for a regrouping point then hoof it from main. Hoofing it from main by yourself is not an option. A few times I've walked all the way from main to regroup with my squad only to get within 200 meters of them and have them die and respawn at main.

                      Never Beat Ninja Gaiden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                        Originally posted by andretmzt View Post
                        "Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed"

                        First thing that came to mind when I read this was that the squad leader along with one man could just sit back from an objective and keep deploying the RP leaving the rest of the squad to assault, something which I used to do on vanilla, but hopefully the second point (Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close), as ambiguous as it is (What is defined as close?) should counteract that.
                        My thoughts exactly, it all depends on how close "close" is. If they have to be right on top of you before you cant drop a ralley this is gonna turn into BF2 vanilla. If the range is pretty decent, I think it will work as intended and just be used to put a squad back together that had the crap kicked out of them.

                        Also love the new FOB and asset distances, this will go a long way towards more FOBs being droped.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                          Originally posted by joe98 View Post
                          The changes look positive :) I think those who might be harbouring the impure thought you described should remember the 'strive for realism' piece. A squad leader hanging back and spawning infantry (like the queen in Aliens) would not fall under striving for realism :)
                          No your right but if it is like he fears , that will fall under good "game" tactics and any one who doesn't use it is realy hurting his team.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                            Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close.
                            "..hey let's try to set a rally, if we can't we have bad guys near us"
                            that was the first thing that came to my mind.
                            It would be pretty easy to check if you have any enemies near you without even looking around, but anyways..looking forward to test it
                            |TGXV|STeaLthBananaaa

                            sigpic

                            We snipe the TG way

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

                              dbzao posted a short FAQ in the PR thread:
                              Originally posted by [R-DEV]dbzao View Post
                              0) What's the interval between RP placement?

                              Same as in 0.874, interval of 2 min between RPs. If we see the RPs being used in exploitive ways, like SL + 1 staying back and pumping out troops to die and repeat, we will consider increasing that number.

                              1) How close do enemies need to be to prevent RP placement?

                              Varies by map size and quantity of enemies, between 50-100 meters. My suggestion is don't think about a specific number, but move to a safe position, not the closest position you can go without the enemy being close.

                              2) If an RP is placed and enemies approach, will it disappear as it used to or will it now re-require a knife?

                              Yes, it will disappear by enemy presence if they approach it before the 30s have passed. That's another reason to not try to do it when you know they are too close. Fall back to safety.

                              3) How many squad members are required to have an Officer kit?

                              Same as in 0.874, a squad of 2 can get an Officer kit.

                              4) How many squad members are required to place a RP and how close must they be to the Officer?

                              Same as in 0.874, SL + 1 SM ~ 25m close.

                              5) You say 3 SM's to REQUEST kits; does that also include spawning with the medic/Auto rifle squad?

                              Yes, same limitation of a squad of 3 is required to spawn with the medic/saw kit.
                              Yay!
                              |TG-6th|Snooggums

                              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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