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  • Sniper issue.

    So, I just got fed up with the Reality Mod forum where a reply I got was a link to a video that basically said "I refuse to listen to your argument LALALALALA"

    So I propose it here, to see the feedback:

    Sniper rifles are unrealistic. This is a fact.

    Keep the billion second wait time for long range accuracy.
    Keep the lack of camo.
    Keep the prejudice from the rest of the team.

    What bothers me the most is the comparison between the sniper rifle and the ten cent rifle (AKA Standard Inf rifle)

    Inf rifle is pretty much accurate no matter what and is affected by deviation. With its high clip size and rate of fire, it -will- kill things at 300m.

    A sniper rifle should NOT be affected by deviation. That is not how they are designed. So when I zoom in crouched at infantry who easily snuck behind me because it's a big world out there and is now 200m away, I want a fighting chance. Not to wait 5 seconds where each second is a chance at random death to miss, because I didnt wait a stupid amount of time.

    So what I thought was the sniper rifle should be automatically accurate to a certain distance, with very small deviation (2 second still or whatever would fix that deviation) and the time it takes to zoom in would be like "deploying" the rifle.

    It does. not. make sense for snipers to be as defenseless as they are at medium range.

    Close range they have pistols, whatever.

    The point is, [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34RqMoyMZmI[/media]
    This video has a man shooting 1000 yards at an 18 inch target with an unmodified WWII rifle. It takes him 11 seconds between two of his shots, where both hit.

    600m? 5'6" tall human? Modern Sniper Rifle? EIGHT seconds?

    Dont get me started on comparing them to the new LMGs, that's a different rant.

    Thoughts?
    |TG-Irr|Sirsolo since 18OCT08.

    Carpe Diem


  • #2
    Re: Sniper issue.

    "So, I just got fed up with the Reality Mod forum where a reply I got was a link to a video that basically said "I refuse to listen to your argument LALALALALA""

    the DEV who replied to your thread is a active British Army Serviceman, iirc he is a Sniper and Javelin operator.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sniper issue.

      Irrelevant on 2 levels.. the DEV didn't post the video but instead he misunderstand my entire argument, and this isn't the PR forum.

      Im no longer going there, it's too... low caliber.
      |TG-Irr|Sirsolo since 18OCT08.

      Carpe Diem

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sniper issue.

        It only takes 8 seconds for the initial shot, individual shots are about 4 seconds between at 600m for perfect accuracy with the sniper rifles in PR.
        |TG-6th|Snooggums

        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sniper issue.

          [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhM0BrZjsM[/media]
          Skud


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sniper issue.

            Let's just make the snipers bullet-proof. After all, their ability to "reach out an touch someone" from long range, their ability to have smoke negated because snipers probably set their graphics to low and on and on just aren't enough of an advantage.

            Everything has a pro and a con. Snipers are long range fighters. When they get into medium range and CQB they lose because their weapons are not designed to match the rate of fire of the assault rifles carried by those troops that aren't cool enough to carry the long guns. If someone gets close enough to you to take you down with the assault rifle then you've failed as a sniper and should die anyway.

            I prefer to knife snipers though. Much more satisfying.

            "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sniper issue.

              in PR the sniper rifle is more made for spotting / intel / lase. not to be a 1337 sniper alone.

              the sniper rifle works best on insurgent maps as basedefend weapon, kashan for lasing.

              ever seen a sniper lasing on kashan with 0 kills but lasing 20 enemy armor? thats the way a sniper kit should be used.

              there are only a few maps (view distance) for leet snipers and i thank the devs for it.
              Last edited by Bullseye2550; 11-30-2009, 10:57 AM.



              | | | |

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sniper issue.

                [QUOTE=sirsolo;1402648]

                Inf rifle is pretty much accurate no matter what and is affected by deviation. With its high clip size and rate of fire, it -will- kill things at 300m.[quote]

                Debatable.

                A sniper rifle should NOT be affected by deviation.
                It should be an unstoppable force that requires no thought or skill. Continue...

                That is not how they are designed.
                There are several DEV's and ABA guys alone that can debate this with you... But in my own experience, while PR's system is not perfect, it gets the job done.

                I consider myself quite the marksman in my time with my M14 back home. Even with my experience and a good shooting table and calm winds, I am not going to hit the 200m every single time.

                Deviation keeps it interesting, IMO. And in real life you simply cannot make every. single. shot. Deviation is to keep the sniper rifle from being a disgusting kill-whore weapon, like it used to be. 36-0 used to be my mainstay, and it earned me some devices here at TG...

                Snipers should never be like that, again.

                So when I zoom in crouched at infantry who easily snuck behind me because it's a big world out there and is now 200m away, I want a fighting chance.
                Where was your wingman?

                Not to wait 5 seconds where each second is a chance at random death to miss, because I didnt wait a stupid amount of time.
                If you think about it realistically, it's not that far off... Using the M14 as an example, again:

                1. The weapon is damn heavy. In PR you can walk with your weapon shouldered and pointed down range forever. In real life, I'd like to see you do the same. Even with a 9 pound M16 you would tire fast. Hell, I could give you a 5 pound weight - if I made you hold it out in front of you, muscle fatique would take over...

                So theoretically, you have to bring the sights up and find the target first.

                2. PR does not incorporate breathing - which even at 20m could make a kill shot turn into a miss.

                So theoretically, you're counting your breaths before you pull the trigger... And you don't just "pull" a trigger. You will miss your target if you "pull."

                When you are ready to fire, after bringing your weapon to bear, sight, and get your breathing where it needs to be, you do not "pull." You slowly squeeze, with as little pressure as you can get away with before the weapon fires. The first thing that goes through your mind when it fires should be "Holy ****, a gun just fired!" It should surprise you.

                So, lets review.

                1. Bring up gun. Get the target in picture.
                2. Steady your body and your breathing. Get into your firing position - which is different for every shooter. My crouched and prone positions are different than many because I'm 6'3.
                3. Squeeze the trigger, slowly.

                Hey, looks like we're past 5 seconds now...

                So what I thought was the sniper rifle should be automatically accurate to a certain distance,
                If your rifle is zeroed to 800m, you're going to have to undershoot your target theoretically. PR does this to a small degree.

                with very small deviation (2 second still or whatever would fix that deviation) and the time it takes to zoom in would be like "deploying" the rifle.
                Again..

                1. Bring up weapon. Rough sight.
                2. Breathing/Firing position better be good.
                3. Squeezing trigger, slowly.

                It does. not. make sense for snipers to be as defenseless as they are at medium range.
                I don't know, maybe they're supposed to be used for LONG range engagements... Your wingman should be slaying the mediums.

                Close range they have pistols, whatever.
                Which, in the right hands (ala mine) dominate anywhere from 0-50m.
                Last edited by Skud; 11-30-2009, 10:02 AM.
                Skud


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sniper issue.

                  It would be nice if it were a little less random, but I suppose that would take into account factors such as wind, coriolis force blah blah ect.

                  What annoys me is how incredibly bad the Lee Enfield is, or maybe it is just me.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sniper issue.

                    Snipers are actually better now then they have ever been before. Grab a spotter, do your job, and everyone goes home happy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sniper issue.

                      I want to see you getting prone and shoot with your maximum accuracy in 8 sec.
                      In Game after 8 sec. minimum deviation is reached, at closer ranges a deviation low enough that is sufficient to hit should be reached sooner, the way I understand it.

                      Like the marksman rifle is accurate over its maximum range after 4 sec or so, but if an enemy is up close I can just zoom in and hit in 2 shots.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sniper issue.

                        From my point of view being a sniper in PR is fine how it is right now.
                        I agree with you on the camo though and maybe a silencer and a heartbeat sensor,
                        but that's beside the point. :P

                        The deviation time might seem a little high for a game,
                        but If i wanted to prone-aim-shoot I would play vanilla only.
                        Even with the 4-8 seconds it's still not that difficult to at least hit a target,
                        but I am strongy supporting the opinion that snipers shouldn't be too much
                        involved into engagements. There are several other important duties a sniper
                        should fullfill on the field rather than racking up a massiv amount of kills.

                        I'm glad that you brought up this discussion, always interresting to hear about
                        other people's opinions on a topic like this.
                        And I think that's what at least our forums here are for.
                        Sharing your own, but at the same time respecting another person's opinion.
                        And I guess I am not the only one that has not got that much experience
                        shooting guns irl.
                        So let's not be too harsh about it.
                        |TGXV|STeaLthBananaaa

                        sigpic

                        We snipe the TG way

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sniper issue.

                          Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

                          Trying to argue realism without any factual arguments really is a poor show.
                          Skud


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sniper issue.

                            Skud I don't think ripping some poor guy's face off when you shares a different opinion on a game mechanic is much of a good show either.

                            Think of the puppies, and T-Rex sheriffs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sniper issue.

                              Originally posted by STealthBanana View Post
                              I agree with you on the camo though and maybe a silencer and a heartbeat sensor,
                              but that's beside the point. :P
                              Camo doesn't draw at long ranges so if you are engaging correctly it wouldn't matter since you should be a pixel on the horizon.

                              At the correct distance no-one can hear you fire. What sniper rifles use silencers (not just a slight noise suppression as part of their design) anyway?

                              Heartbeat sensor = counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi...
                              |TG-6th|Snooggums

                              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                              Comment

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