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TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

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  • TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

    This is a reminder that the TG PR server rule instruct you to follow the normal chain of command:
    Commander
    Squad leader
    Squad member

    All Squad Leaders are on an equal level of the command chain, so one Squad Leader does not get to order the other Squad Leaders or Squad Members outside their own squad around. You can always feel free to request assistance and that is where the unofficial TG DADT policy comes into effect.

    Appropriate examples when there is no commander, or the issue does not require commander involvement:
    Do ask the other squad to do a particular task:
    "Squad 1, could we get your medic to revive over here?"
    "Requesting CAS support in H2K3."
    "Requesting transportation in D3."
    "Squad 3, would you hold this flag while we advance to the next?"
    "We need overwatch from armor at North Bunkers!"
    "APC squad, do you mind if we use the BTR?" - (asked out of respect for named asset coordination if no commander)

    Do not say the following to other squads when there is no commander:
    "Squad 2 move your troops to the next flag, we have this one."
    "Armor, move your tanks to overwatch us in the North bunkers."
    "Get your squads out of main, we are losing!" (or 'loosing' if you can't spell)
    "You guys are all doing it wrong."
    "CAS you need to start giving us support at the dam NOW!"
    "Leave the BTR for the APC squad." (when no commander present)

    Heck, even saying what you need/want is ok as long as you don't try to tell the other squad that they need to do what you want.

    If you want to tell multiple squads what to do, then step up to the commander role. If you want to tell up to 5 other people what to do then have them join your squad. If the team lost the last round because it wasn't coordinated despite asking them to coordinate, feel free to step up the following round and use your idea of how to coordinate and tell them how to do it right. The bonus is that you can report the ones who don't follow your orders, so you really can get what you want.

    So in summary: If you are not the commander then you should asking non-squad members for assistance, not telling them what to do.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

  • #2
    Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

    Sometimes a team would greatly benefit from a commander presence, but the leadership pool is so thin that it would be a terrible loss of a SL. So, many times, I'll let some other SL take charge and basically I consider him the commander minus the commander-only abilities. I've seen this work amazingly many times.
    |TG-Irr| Dreadnought
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    • #3
      Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

      To be honest, I thought we were about to have a thread about not asking about BigGaayAl's orientation.... Boy did I get fooled.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

        There's a difference between ordering another squad and a request. During most of these situations, it's obviously a request and not an order, and it really should not be taken as such, no matter how it's worded.

        Take things in the spirit they are intended (especially when it's obvious) and don't twist 'em around, and everything will work out fine.

        "Platoon" leaders can also work well especially if there isn't a commander. It's a good thing, not bad. It works great on insurgency maps, too. Teams will generally fail if no one takes leadership whatsoever, and if someone is doing so you should cooperate because they're taking on the burden of leading the team. If you don't like it, you should volunteer to lead the 'platoon' yourself if there's no commander and people are willing to listen to your ideas, requests, or even orders if it's something officially established.

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        • #5
          Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

          Originally posted by Startrekern View Post
          There's a difference between ordering another squad and a request. During most of these situations, it's obviously a request and not an order, and it really should not be taken as such, no matter how it's worded.

          Take things in the spirit they are intended (especially when it's obvious) and don't twist 'em around, and everything will work out fine.
          Hi,

          Thank you for posting in my thread. I would like to point out that the purpose of the thread is to point out the difference between asking and ordering and even gave examples of the differences between the two. If your feedback is that ordering should be taken as a request then I think you may have misread the first post, or choose to believe the people are possibly psychic and know that "GET BACK TO THE DOCKS SQUAD ONE" is really a kindly worded request and not the equivalent of a drill sergeant chewing out a new recruit.

          "Platoon" leaders can also work well especially if there isn't a commander. It's a good thing, not bad. It works great on insurgency maps, too. Teams will generally fail if no one takes leadership whatsoever, and if someone is doing so you should cooperate because they're taking on the burden of leading the team. If you don't like it, you should volunteer to lead the 'platoon' yourself if there's no commander and people are willing to listen to your ideas, requests, or even orders if it's something officially established.
          Oh, you did miss the point about command structure and that teamwork should be voluntary between squads when there is no commander. I would have agreed with the bold part if you had said 'click the commander button' in there somewhere. Maybe I should just read it how you intended and know that you meant go commander instead because obviously as a TG member you would be promoting the realistic command structure as outlined in the rules, right?

          No, I have to go by what you said and that is follow the vocal SL instead of assuming you meant something else. No thanks, I'll work with the one who asks until someone steps up to lead through the proper commander position.

          FYI, on the PR scale the commander is the Platoon leader.
          |TG-6th|Snooggums

          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

            If you stood up during a round of, say, Ramiel, and attempted to organize the team (even without going Commander), I would listen to you and comply with whatever requests or orders you gave me.

            Whether you would do the same if I did such is questionable.

            More importantly, the command structure you posted is not the only way to go about things, and the other way can in fact be just as, if not more, effective.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

              Originally posted by Startrekern View Post
              If you stood up during a round of, say, Ramiel, and attempted to organize the team (even without going Commander), I would listen to you and comply with whatever requests or orders you gave me.

              Whether you would do the same if I did such is questionable.

              More importantly, the command structure you posted is not the only way to go about things, and the other way can in fact be just as, if not more, effective.
              So as you failed to read the initial post correctly and decided to imply that the op lacks teamwork to try to recover, that's great. Can we avoid trying to turn every thread into some sort of conflict. It is perfectly possible to have this debate, holding opposing viewpoints, if people read and understand the words and retain a little civility. As you were.


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              • #8
                Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                "Squad 2 move your troops to the next flag, we have this one."
                "Armor, move your tanks to overwatch us in the North bunkers.".
                i see nothing wrong with these two, only thing i could see worth changing is asking nicely instead of telling them.

                i see nothing wrong with telling someone you got the area covered and for the other squad to move along to the next flag.

                "All of you stay frickin high speed. All you stay on your frickin primaries and frickin slay bodies all day long. Good to go" -Combat Ninja lol

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                • #9
                  Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                  It is obvious that someone has irritated you concerning this subject. At some point, in the heat of battle, I'm sure we have all been guilty of unintentionally "ordering" another squad to do something. However, there is nothing wrong with refusing the demands of another SL. If you find yourself getting angry because another SL is trying to order you around, try blowing it off by telling yourself, "That SL must be overly excited and is forgetting their manners." Or politely inform them they are being bossy. If the previous two techniques don't work, try running them over with your car and crouching on their face to get your point across.

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                  • #10
                    Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                    Originally posted by A.WICKENS View Post
                    So as you failed to read the initial post correctly and decided to imply that the op lacks teamwork to try to recover, that's great. Can we avoid trying to turn every thread into some sort of conflict. It is perfectly possible to have this debate, holding opposing viewpoints, if people read and understand the words and retain a little civility. As you were.
                    To be fair, startrek wasn't turning it into a conflict, I think he was just adding another option to snoggums post.

                    I caught myself yesterday as commander as "telling a squad what to do" rather than instructing them, and giving some leeway. I realized afterwords that I came off as a A-Hole, and did end up apologizing.

                    I do agree with you snoggums nothing is more annoying when another squad member or squad leader either says what certain squads should do, rather than asking, or goes right over the commanders head and proceeds to instruct others instead of giving the suggestion to the CO mid game.
                    Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
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                    • #11
                      Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                      Originally posted by Bastard View Post
                      It is obvious that someone has irritated you concerning this subject. At some point, in the heat of battle, I'm sure we have all been guilty of unintentionally "ordering" another squad to do something. However, there is nothing wrong with refusing the demands of another SL. If you find yourself getting angry because another SL is trying to order you around, try blowing it off by telling yourself, "That SL must be overly excited and is forgetting their manners." Or politely inform them they are being bossy. If the previous two techniques don't work, try running them over with your car and crouching on their face to get your point across.
                      This is a multi-year issue, and I haven't even played for a couple of days so it isn't an angry post about one or a few players. When other SLs try to order me around I go along with it if the idea is good, but if they are forceful in telling other squads I point out that the other squads would listen to them if they simply went commander.

                      We don't have enough regular commanders. The position is not redundant with an SL with an idea, and those that want to coordinate should step up and sit in the commander chair if they want to organize.

                      Star: I go along if the idea is good. I may be oppositional if the idea is bad, or it comes across as bossy, but you've seen me tell multiple people to go commander if they want to order multiple squads around. I've also gone along with a single SLs plan when it was good. as I noted above if someone asks I am more likely to go along with the plan.

                      Ankyle: The problem with those quotes is that it is telling the other squad to do something."Go do this" is different than "We can defend if you want to advance". Maybe the other squad wants to defend while you advance? Without a commander the proper procedure is to work with the other squad, not order them around. The armor notification would be better as "We need tank cover at North Bunkers" as it explains a need without telling them they have to do it.
                      |TG-6th|Snooggums

                      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                        While nothing you've said is wrong, and heck, if everyone did listen to this then yes, PR at TG would be an even better place, I still think having a little common courtesy is really all you need when you want a squad to do something, regardless of what position you're playing in-game.

                        In reality when dealing with other people, we [ideally] try to phrase our requests as politely as we can, because, well, no one's gunna want to do it your way if you're coming across like an ass.

                        I guess there's also gunna be the fact that different people may take in the same-worded request to have varying tones of voice depending on their definition of order as opposed to request.

                        But sure, if you'd like to be technical about it (which, in some instances, I agree, is a necessary way of approaching things), then I guess DADT is the way to go.

                        | |

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                        • #13
                          Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                          I honestly wasn't trying to pick a fight with you, Snooggums. Perhaps poor wording, and I apologize. (I find it humorous as it's kind of like Senator Reid that was in the news today, but back on topic..) I also more meant to say that you were a slightly more experienced infantry leader than I am, and people would be more inclined to follow you in such a platoon than I (even though I had the opportunity to do so on one Karbala round when Dispo got tired of it, that was quite fun)

                          Though I do absolutely believe that infantry squads that are working in concert, on the ground, with a clear leader a step below the commander but a step above squad leaders, is an excellent way to do things and most certainly makes all the squads involved more effective. Whether this man is commander-assigned or 'chosen' by the collective of squad leaders if there is no commander or simply has a good idea that everyone likes and they're willing to listen to him to get it done, it -does- work.

                          /takes a breath

                          Now I also probably misread your OP a bit, but I still stand by my point that although something may sound closer to an 'order' when it is really a 'request' or perhaps a 'forceful suggestion'.. quite a lot of the time it's just misunderstood over text as it's kind of hard to carry intent that way.

                          You are absolutely correct with your other points though, and I don't disagree with them.

                          That is, unless squad leaders get a 'NEXT TIME TRY FOLLOWING MY ORDERS' button in .9 ;)

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                          • #14
                            Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                            Wow, a 'treat your fellow players with respect by asking instead of getting bossy' thread got two stars. Good show!
                            |TG-6th|Snooggums

                            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                            • #15
                              Re: TG DADT policy or 'Do ask, don't tell' [unofficial]

                              i didnt even know threads had stars

                              "All of you stay frickin high speed. All you stay on your frickin primaries and frickin slay bodies all day long. Good to go" -Combat Ninja lol

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