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Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

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  • Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

    While I never liked the old implementation of the VIP extraction mode (it ended up being Mad Max) I would love to have a mode where a team has to follow a set path and the opposition attempts to deny that advance. I have an idea on how to do so, as outlined below but I would love suggestions or possible issues as feedback.

    A series of flags:
    On a map like Kozelsk there is a road that runs from the south end of the map to the north end, going through a few turns and very ambushable areas. This map would be a great candidate.

    To avoid the single VIP issues of the old VIP missions I think it would be necessary to do a 'train' style movement and require more than one vehicle to initiate the objectives. If one was destroyed then the second would need to catch up before advancing. The rest of the convoy would benefit from having transports to cover the movement and pretty much keep the moving team together or in the general area of the objective (minus some clearing infantry). Alternately, requiring 10 or more players to turn a flag would be possible but limit the mode to a more full server.

    In this case what I would do is have 6 to 10 flags along the road at various points that have to be capped in order (only the advancing team would cap). The cap time would be 5 to 10 minutes and require either a certain number of troops or set vehicles. Once capped the team could move on to the next objective, and if they lost the minimum number of troops they would have to catch up from main.

    The moving team would not be able to build FoBs, and instead would need to use transportation and their rallies to bring any soldiers forward. There might be a good reason to have the supply vehicles reload the rally for this game mode.

    The defending team would not have TOW emplacements, so the default Milita could be used and they could build FoBs, machine gun nests and razorwire to impede the convoy. Defenders should not have any AT vehicles, technicals would be enough.

    The vehicles would be easy targets for AT kits. May need to limit defenders to LATs/mines.
    Artillery: Too easy to call on the convoy while capping, probably best to leave arty out completely.
    Tickets? It would be best to have defenders either without tickets or with a large number of tickets that would still encourage them not to just throw themselves at the convoy but also not make them lose because the vehicles are good shots. The convoy should have a certain amount also as if they take enough damage they shouldn't make it to the end.

    There also need to be a reason for the convoy to advance in my opinion. I don't like the Kozelsk can currently be won as an invasion map by the invading army when they have no caped flags, but that is another thread.

    Please let me know what other issues might come up or any thoughts on the game mode.

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

  • #2
    Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

    I like it. Would be nice to see people flesh out their ideas of a proper convoy or ambush. Instead of just "Spawn, run towards convoy, die, repeat" This kind of reminds me of L4D. A team has to get from point A to point B, and the other team has to stop them.


    • #3
      Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

      I'd love a revamped game mode to freshen up PR, but I just don't see this being it. You can't force a team to stay in convoy when they know there is an ambush up the road! they will spread out and advance, all you will end up having is AAS in a line. Won't be as bad as VIP's "mad max" scenario, but all the same, you can't make players role play!
      Stay together, communicate, don't give up.



      • #4
        Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

        Unfortunately I agree with Paine. It's a really good idea but there are some faults that need to be worked out -- mainly the fact that some places on maps like Kozelsk are TOO ambush-able and that tactics like just bumrushing the vehicles at top speed and hoping you get there will be used especially in public play -- or keeping the vehicles at the far back until the area is completely cleared out and then moving them up, which ruins the point of it and makes it feel more like normal AAS with cap-outs.


        • #5
          Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

          Originally posted by Startrekern View Post
          or keeping the vehicles at the far back until the area is completely cleared out and then moving them up, which ruins the point of it and makes it feel more like normal AAS with cap-outs.
          This is the intent of the mode. The team clears out the area of the flag and caps it slowly, once capped they move to the next flag a short distance away. Having to move slow means the rest of the team can only move so far ahead, and the progress moves across the map making rushing less important than standing ground or setting up an ambush at the next area for the defenders.
          Attached Files

          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.


          • #6
            Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

            i would think the abushers would have too much of an advantage. they would have to limit mines and ied's.

            "All of you stay frickin high speed. All you stay on your frickin primaries and frickin slay bodies all day long. Good to go" -Combat Ninja lol


            • #7
              Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

              Has anyone played Iron Ridge insurgency? Can the above what snoogs posted be accomplished as the Russian Side?

              Snoogs, I would be more than happy to develop a series of Scenarios which would include convoy missions which could maybe be implemented on the server as a "Scenario Event".

              In line with what you posted, The bluefor would also have to "arrest" an individual at certain objectives, it would be random, like the VIP was random during the extraction phase of PR. Obviously the player(s) who are the arrestable wouldn't be able to live the area in which they are placed, but in doing so the convoy would have to go to the area, then deploy infantry to scout out and make the arrest. Then mount up and move on. I could see making the arrest enable the location of the next outlaw to be shown or like insurgent maps killing insurgents or arresting other insurgents would allow for more intel on the next objective.

              Using convoys in general though is a excellent way to teach new players to the game situational awareness, and also to test the limitations of the vehicles in play. It also shows how driving on someones bumper is a sure way to get two vehicles destroyed instead of one, and also shows the basics of setting up a perimeter with vehicles and how that can be very helpful instead of driving a vehicle willy-nilly through a combat zone.

              Obviously mines would not be an option for the insurgent forces, and IED's would have to be limited or could only be used via certain kits. Same goes for RPGs, and Techinicals would have to be very few

              As I posted above, snoogs if you would like to discuss it further on TS or Xfire or PMs let me know I would be happy to help develop scenarios which could be put towards a scenario night event.
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              • #8
                Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                I think mines would be fine because they can be cleared with a wrench, but I agree that C4/IEDs should be restricted from the ambushers.

                I don't like the one person idea, which is why I was focusing on having several vehicles being the requirement for capping. This encourages more teamwork by focusing the game around the convoy itself and not a single player who can go hide in a panic room.

                Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.


                • #9
                  Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                  I say limit it to nothing larger than .50's and hand grenades. No AT weapons, mines or IED's. (Yeah, I know RPG's are a dime a dozen in the real world.)
                  Interesting ideas Snoogs :)



                  • #10
                    Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                    Unless of course the Commander was the VIP and has to be in the vehicle for it to work.. such as an armored, unarmed command APC. That'd encourage the use of a CO.


                    • #11
                      Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                      I've been eager to see something like this come back. We had some good times with VIP mode back in the old days because of gentlemen's agreements we had in place not to use AT, etc.

                      I think it could potentially work very well, but it would require some big changes IMO.
                      What I have in mind:
                      -Limit the map boundaries to be tighter along the routes. This doesnt mean that 50m off the route is out of bounds, but within a reasonable distance, so that blufor doesnt have to spend an hour at each flag to make sure that the immediate area ahead and 2km on either side is clear.

                      -opfor has set spawn points along the route that are linked to the flags (i know this is possible because thats the way it works in vBF2) that disappear as the round progresses. the purpose behind this is to simulate the the blufor securing the area when they cap a point.

                      if thats not quite clear, imagine this: blufor has their permanent spawn at the route start. there are 4 CPs, A, B, C, D, along the route with "A" being closest to the blufor spawn. the opfor has spawns near, but not on, all 4 CPs. when blufor caps CP "A", the opfor spawns near CP "A" disappear, simulating blufor securing the area (with maybe a few stragglers who managed to stay hidden). at this point, the opfor can no longer spawn near CP "A", but only at B, C, and D. this system progresses until either the opfor wins by destroying the convoy or the blufor caps out the route and the opfor can no longer spawn.

                      blufor is limited to ONE firebase, so they have to choose where to place it, if even to place it at all, or if its simply more time efficient to bring troops up from the route start.

                      -new vehicles. sure, there are some vehicles that can be destroyed with grenades and guns, but not all of them. furthermore, if you have an APC driver who is remotely competent, he's never going to get blown up by grenades or incendiaries. so we'd have to alter the vehicles specifically for this game mode so that they either take a very large number of bullets to kill (as opposed to the standard 3-4 clips, which would mean that a single squad could take out a good chunk of a convoy in a matter of seconds with a little luck and good aim) or require some manner of higher teamwork to kill.

                      the reasoning behind this is simple: take a look at insurgency. sure, one guy could concievably win an entire round of insurgency by himself by destroying every cache. but the truth is that it cant reasonably happen because a.) the caches are spread out all over hell and b.) he would have an entire team trying to stop him. with the convoy idea, it would be limited range of movement for the blufor and significantly decreased manpower due to the driver requirements. so it would have to require a delicate balance of armor vs power, which leads me into the next point.


                      blufor first. we have to be careful in choosing the vehicles for the blufor. a full legion of APCs would be too powerful. Hell, even a full convoy of .50 humvees would be. so you'd have to have a couple unarmed armored vehicles, one or two "power" vehicles like APCs, and maybe one or two "escort" vehicles like .50 humvees. also, the ammunition on the APCs and escort vehicles would need to be limited to a degree, such as only AP rounds on the APCs so that the blufor cant just use HE rounds to blow up massive amounts of people with splash damage, and a limited number of reloads on the humvees. this would mean that the blufor cant just stall at spawn or at one of the flags and just chew up the opfor until they get tired of playing. they would have to conserve ammo smartly and rely on their infantry forces to help them or be destroyed.

                      opfor is a bit easier to manage. I agree that IEDs are a bad idea because they can be triggered from anywhere and are impossible to disarm. I think mines are fine because they can be disarmed easily and are a one-and-run-for-ammo deal. I think AT should be included, but in a very very limited fashion, such as only having three LAT kits for the whole team as NON-RESPAWNING pickup kits. this will force AT to be conserved and used smartly, otherwise the blufor is simply going to kill the AT guys and take the kits, leaving the opfor without any kind of "big guns" so to speak.

                      for both sides, I do think that artillery should be included, but in a very limited form. i'm thinking something like a triple barrage of LIGHT mortars (something roughly equivalent to the explosive power of grenades, as opposed to the current mortar strikes which have a huge kill radius. to picture my "light mortar" idea, imagine 3 sets of 5 grenadier grenades falling in random placement over a 100m radius in a 30 second time span) and can only be used ONCE on the map, so it would have to be used wisely. this would give the opfor the ability to do minor damage to the convoy while eliminating some of the support ground forces and would allow the blufor to destroy a dug-in ambush. but like i said, it would be a one-time deal.

                      -winning terms. simple:
                      opfor wins by destroying designated convoy vehicles, each of which bleeds off a SET number of tickets, like caches do in insurgency. This would include APCs, .50 humvee escorts and armored transport vehicles (which dont necessarily have to be transporting anything, but CAN carry troops). These convoy vehicles (of which I'm thinking: 3 escort humvees, 2 APCs, 3 armored transports) would NOT be respawnable, so once they're dead, theyre dead. However, the blufor would also have one logistics truck with repair/rearm crates, just as they are now that respawns on a loooong timer (so as not to be able to infinitely repair the convoy) and regular troop transport trucks or unarmed humvees which respawn faster, but have limited or no ammo crates and no repair abilities. Destroying the transport/logi trucks would have no effect on the convoy ticket loss, the same way that blowing up an insurgent technical doesnt effect the score on an insurgency map.

                      blufor wins by capping out the convoy route or killing enough opfor to win on tickets. however, to prevent blufor camping at spawn and being in a fortified fighting position for the entire map, the opfor would have some ridiculous number of tickets, like 600 or 700.

                      so like I said, it would take some major edits, but I do see it as being possible for 1.0.


                      • #12
                        Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                        I was thinking of something along the lines of the following for the convoy:
                        3 supply/convoy trucks, of which 2 must be present to cap a flag/waypoint.
                        2 APCs
                        2 light vehicles (humvee/brdm/technical)
                        some transport trucks

                        No HATs
                        Pickup LATs/RPGs, could be spawned on a trigger event like insurgent RPGs, except they spawn at the main when the flag is capped instead of at a cache.
                        Pickup demolition kits like engineers or sappers. No C4/IEDs though, just mines. Could limit their auto resupply to the main to avoid a large number of mines, maybe even restrict the ammo in kits.
                        Still have RKGs in kits, they only do light damage to vehicles.
                        Possibly even have the AT cannons along the route, which would require forward clearance to bring the trucks forward.

                        I like the idea of limiting the field of battle but I would still want to keep it fairly large to avoid being too narrowly focused but close enough to keep the vehicles on the road area. The only problem would be that each route (if randomized) would need to fit in the same restricted area or have multiple maps layers for each of a few limited routes. I think that it would be neat for the defenders to only see a third or so of the route markers if random so they don't know all of the locations the convoy will be stopping at.

                        This would also work well with Insurgency factions such as Iraqi Insurgents and Taliban, as multiple routes could be made on Archer, Lashkar and Al Basrah.

                        The biggest problem is that if the Convoy is wiped out they will have to make their way back to the ending location and the theme is broken. This might be something that is too niche for public play, kind of like C&C, due to players needing simple and easy to understand objectives for the most part.

                        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.


                        • #13
                          Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                          One of the ways you might deal with the problem of the spawn issues surrounding the convoy team, is have multiple convoys during the round.

                          Say, 5, and 3/5 have to reach the destination for victory. That way, people who die during the first few, can either choose to simply ready themselves for the next one, or make their way to the current one. Sort of like catching a bus i guess? :P


                          • #14
                            Re: Convoy/Ambush mode, please give your feedback!

                            Actually what I think should be done specifically for the convoy mode is for APC spawning to be brought back. That would work ;)




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