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  • The Deployable TOW



    I have yet to go a single round in PR in which the TOW wasn't used almost exclusively as an Anti-Infantry only platform. Case in point, today in Muttrah, on your server, the MEC set a TOW up on the mosque roof, and continuously fired them at US troops all across the city. I get that it's a legitimate asset, and who's to say no one has ever been killed by a TOW IRL. But everyone knows the TOW is overpowered. Super accurate, quick reload, infinite ammo, and nearly impossible to take out from the ground, given it's incredibly low profile. An APC shooting at it simply won't hit it before it is taken out, because of the spread of the shots. That's fine. The problem is when it's used against infantry. It brought nothing to this release. Kashan is in fact the only map in which I've seen that Vehicles can still operate against the TOW without fear of being blown up instantly, from a random direction, with no warning.

    Cry More, I know. But I play in TG because I expect fun, and seriousness. This is like HAT sniping from .7-.8, only much worse. It's an immature tactic TG, and I expect better of you guys.

    "That's what the game is all about. TOW sniping." In game quote from a TG member.

    My priorities, in order. 1) KD/R 2) Winning 3) Gunning in a Tank 4) Everything Else

  • #2
    Re: The Deployable TOW

    i dont mind it. shoot the gunner and they are 'dead dead', they arent that hard to take out with some coordination and tactics.
    they make APCs think twice before charging into a FOB.
    if the tow can see you, the infantry can see you, use cover and concealment.

    i do think they should take away the super zoom it has and give a not so crazy zoom distance.

    "All of you stay frickin high speed. All you stay on your frickin primaries and frickin slay bodies all day long. Good to go" -Combat Ninja lol

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    • #3
      Re: The Deployable TOW

      I'd have to agree.

      The TOW in its current form is a glorified H-AT on steroids, only, unmovable. Who knows though, it will probably sprout legs soon enough... God knows where the hell we'll be able to hide then.

      I'm unsure if this issue is being addressed at the moment. However, I wish you would have taken the time to Copy + Paste this thread and post it in the PR Feedback sub-forum instead of the garbage you left instead.

      I honestly wish you and your members would show a bit more maturity when posting feedback about PR. I know you don't agree with how PR has progressed over the years, but please, show a bit more respect.

      You all are a great bunch of guys who have heavily influenced previous versions of PR, and it saddens me to look back and see how you treat the game you once helped develop.

      Sorry for slightly derailing this thread. You have a good point and make a valid argument; I'd love to see the TOW get overhauled, or well, nerfed in the coming patch.
      CR8Z: "No, I've not been good, but as an American, I'm entitled to everything I want."

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      • #4
        Re: The Deployable TOW

        Yeah I agree, but probably like lots of other people I have the stupid mindset of getting really annoyed when it's used against me and then don't give a damn if someone from my team uses it against the enemy. Quite a lot of people probably don't build TOWs outright for infantry, but what SL is going to say "Don't shoot that infantry with the TOW". I know I wouldn't. Kind of confusing huh?

        All I can say is start eating carrots or fish oil to improve eyesight, so we can see the buggers in the first place!

        sigpic

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        • #5
          Re: The Deployable TOW

          I do say/yell that at anyone in my squad stupid enough to use the TOW against infantry. The reason is that to me it is obvious that it is not something that you do because it goes a against strive for realism and don't game the game.I get a bad feeling whenever I see someone on my team does this. I think that TG regulars shouldn't be doing this simply becacuse in my eyes it is pushing the boundries of the rules
          If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks



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          • #6
            Re: The Deployable TOW

            Yeah, I agree, but I'm just speaking honestly. I should step-up more.

            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: The Deployable TOW

              Originally posted by Katanama View Post
              I do say/yell that at anyone in my squad stupid enough to use the TOW against infantry. The reason is that to me it is obvious that it is not something that you do because it goes a against strive for realism and don't game the game.I get a bad feeling whenever I see someone on my team does this. I think that TG regulars shouldn't be doing this simply becacuse in my eyes it is pushing the boundries of the rules
              what he said

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              • #8
                Re: The Deployable TOW

                Originally posted by Berlancic View Post
                All I can say is start eating carrots or fish oil to improve eyesight, so we can see the buggers in the first place!
                With their super zoom they are often on the edge of vision, sadly, sometimes past. The main problem vs a HAT is their fast reload time and ability to be rebuilt for more ammo.
                |TG-6th|Snooggums

                Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                • #9
                  Re: The Deployable TOW

                  The TOW was one of the biggest mistakes the DEVs ever made. Sadly, the DEVs have refused to nerf it in the .91 patch (despite numerous suggestions and complaints), To Savage: the problem is that the level of posting on the realitymod forums is so low that it's generally pointless to try and make a sensible argument. Hellhound is correct in that it is used exclusively as an anti-infantry weapon, which is a crying shame. If anything, it's anti-tactics and only makes the game more of an RTS. The problem (in my opinion) is that too many TG players don't see a problem with it because it's in the bounds of the rules. I know we've been having a lot of drama regarding the rules lately, but I'd like to re-iterate that rules shouldn't dictate your gameplay, the primer should. So really, it's up to the regulars to stop doing it, and yes, there are a ton who do. As Kat said, if you SL, order your squadmates not to TOW snipe inf, I've been doing this whenever I SL.

                  Now, I know that the HAT-sniping rule was removed largely due to the fact that it was un-enforcable. But seeing as too many players care about riding the edge of the rule-book, perhaps a rule regarding this should be put in place? That way, while it's hard to enforce, at least the regulars would be pressured to use more mature tactics. And if a rule is too much of a complication, is there a chance that we could get an official statment from the GO?

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                  • #10
                    Re: The Deployable TOW

                    I strongly disagree with TOW's themselves and especially for the use of them as Anti-Infantry weapons.

                    Even though it is not a rule on the server I'm sure we're all mature enough and realistic enough in our playing style to avoid using them for this purpose. A frienfly reminder in squad chat will usually get people to stop from doing it

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                    • #11
                      Re: The Deployable TOW

                      I admit to using the TOW sometimes to kill inf. I have my own 3 or more rule. If a squad crosses my path all bunched up I take the shot. I also kill HATs and Snipers if i see them. I don't like TOW sniping random lone soldiers. As for realism, I'm sure the military would put a TOW into a building full of bad guys. The Dev's took away the splash damage of the spandrel TOWs, maybe they could do it for the deploy-able ones.
                      Viking

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                      • #12
                        Re: The Deployable TOW

                        Well, I think it's a little cheap and unrealistic to spam the TOW at infantry. But, if the player manning the TOW is under fire from enemy infantry, it would seem ok for them to return fire from the TOW to save their own life. But, the player manning the TOW should probably just exit the position and engage those enemies with squad based weapons.

                        The TOW missile is used in real life combat for clearing enemy positions, remember in Iraq when Uday and Qusay Hussein were held up in that building. Maybe some of the members of the forums who were/are in the military could elaborate on the TOW's scope of use involving infantry.

                        At 1 p.m., forces on the ground fired 10 tube-launched optically tracked wire- guided missiles, commonly called TOWs, into the house. "We believe that it is likely that the TOW missile attack was what wound up killing three of the adults," Sanchez said. Source.
                        The TOW's primary purpose is to destroy enemy vehicles, but can be used on infantry when they are in fortified positions and buildings, where as normal gun fire would be ineffective in displacing or killing them. It seems realistic to use the TOW on infantry in some of those situations, but it should not be abused and used as an exploding sniper rifle.

                        A rule on the server regarding the use of the TOW would be impossible to enforce correctly in my opinion, regular players on the server just need to be aware of the rules concerning realistic gameplay. Basically, if it seems unrealistic, think twice before doing it.

                        2. Realism rule

                        •The goal of Project Reality is to mimic real life combat in as close of a manner as possible in a computer game while still keeping game play fun. At TacticalGamer, we emphasize playing the game using real-world tactics and realistic game play.
                        Just my opinion, it's worth discussing further I suppose.
                        |TG-X| mp40x



                        Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Deployable TOW

                          The TOW would be a lot less abusive if:
                          They had less ammunition, 4 shots for anti tank duty would be plenty before needing to be rebuilt.
                          or
                          Only allow one per built FoB, so the FoB would also have to be burned and rebuilt to place the TOW a second time after being built. This would ensure that it could be moved while safe but not spammed and then quickly incendiaried and rebuilt 10m away to continue spamming shots.

                          On the TG server players should default to realism as noted above, reserving anti infantry shots to groups, buildings or as a defensive measure instead of hammering away from across the map over and over.
                          |TG-6th|Snooggums

                          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Deployable TOW

                            The TOW was an inevitable addition to PR for it existed in real life, and people were honestly tired of being on Kashan defending a FOB with no AT defense. The problem as many of you have stated is the fact that its just there to use and convenient. In real life, ammo for tows don't come by that easily and people wouldn't go lone infantry hunting.

                            I disagree though on how a rule against it should be in place for no only is it hard to enforce, but it isn't exactly douche to fire a tow on a group of 5 soldiers grouped together shooting at you.

                            I do want to point out though that on insurgency, the tow sniping lately has gotten out of hand. Many times do people build tows on the outskirts of Ramiel and use that position to snipe at insurgents. Its gotten to the point where I can drive a technical str8 at the tow and be ok while hiding behind a tree 200m away will get me towed...



                            What they need to do I guess, not for realism sadly, is to do what they did to AA and reduce anti infantry effect. Its not realistic but its the only way to stop the inf sniping. Either that or just hope that TG players are legit enough not to tow snipe infantry.

                            And as far as the effect of a tow, honestly, its not hard to flank one, or use the new SAWs we all have to take it out. Worst case scenario, call in a sniper team... as hard as it was to say that :P

                            -Luminus

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Deployable TOW

                              I'm going to play devil's advocate here and argue in favour of the TOW, however let me begin by stating that I don't like getting TOW sniped any more than you guys.

                              The fact is, TOW's exist in real life, and in the modern military on the modern battlefield, you use every available asset to kill the enemy, no matter how insignificant the threat. There are plenty of videos on the Inter-Webs where you can find US Army soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan in a firefight against 3 guys with AK-47's, but since they're a block away behind some wall / rock / sand dune, instead of going over there to kill them, the US Army fires some kind of Grenade / Rocket / Missile / Bomb instead. The bottom line is this: In a life or death fight, you never shoot to kill... you shoot to overkill.

                              Now, in the scope of PR, (which is a game and however based on reality, is still just a virtual imitation) TOW sniping is an over-use of force, and a weapon against which there are few counters. That doesn't mean the TOW needs to be removed. It simply means that the risk / reward of using the TOW in this manner needs adjustment. For example, increase the reload time on the TOW to 60 seconds, or 90 seconds, or 2 minutes. Now the person on the TOW has to decide whether they want to use their shot on a single infantryman, or save it for an armored vehicle. Similarly, an infantry squad can decide to send out a lone 'decoy' to force the TOW to shoot, and then use the reload time to setup base of fire and take out the TOW gunner.

                              Let's also remember that the game now limits each team to building 2 of these powerful weapons, so it's not like they're completely dominating the game space. Even on the smallest 1KM maps, you always have an alternative to being TOW sniped. Find another route to where you want to go. Or, if the TOW is on your objective, flank around and shoot him from behind. Or, if there's no way to flank, cause a distraction and take him out from a second angle. Or, if you're by yourself and can't cause a distraction, or aren't carrying any long range weapons with which to take out the TOW gunner... Then don't post in this thread because there is every reason to believe that you should get blown up for trying to attack a TOW as a single infantryman at long range, either in Real Life, or in PR, or in any other Military Themed Shooter.

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