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Quu, it gives you wings.

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  • Quu, it gives you wings.



    It has been done before. Your squad was at main, the team has lost, server pop dropped off, everyone had a similar idea "hey lets have some fun all this round is really depressing". Usually it happed very late after too many adult beverages, and with little effect other than some laughs. But that's jumping out of a chopper without much forethought and no inclination towards winning, or teamplay.

    Recent posts have shown that I should explain how the tactics had developed recently in our minds, with a vast and welcome amount of help from the creative and experienced people we've done it with, some of of whom no one had ever played with before.

    It starts with Yamalia, a map whose premise, i can only assume, was something like -
    "Let's make a massive map with minimal hard cover, concealment EVERYWHERE, extreme view distance and platoon size APC spawns so any sort of INF maneuver is made useless".
    "Yea..." dev #2 responds, "Like Kashan, only no mountains, no buildings, no air support, and trees everywhere".

    I am an INF whore. I am proud of this, which is why I make no qualms about calling out these sorts of maps. Maps like Ghost Train. The only way to really win ghost train with any sort of recurring certainty was to fight a round of attrition with the enemy. And with that much concealment, the guy who doesn't die is the one who waits in ambush. lol vietnam. Which is fine, many rounds were won this way, but it makes for a really boring map after a while, what with all the laying in grass for two hours. But I digress.

    Realizing that I could not get my INF on, I looked for other ways to play Yamalia. The Canuks, managing to establish air superiority in the center of Russia, with their vastly superior two squadrons of CF-18s, have brought the Airborne Regiment. They are very proficient with parachutes. So we put them to use. We Quu jumped onto one of those Islands completely held by the enemy, and killed a very many of them before kicking. This is what Airborne does. In reality. That's for all you sim-fans.

    I don't really play Yamalia anymore. What I do play is INS, and we have a very specific way of operating, call it a rule-set. Small element, minimal contact. Observes enemy movement, deduces cache location, plans assault from weak side, takes down cache, gets out fast. Repeat.

    This way of doing things is very successful. Usually we run through this on foot, but Archer does not lend itself to that. It is far too open, and that among other things results in way too much contact for a small element to be effective with any sort of consistency. This is frustrating because it forced us into using HMWWVs and G-Wagons constantly. You could say It was an affront to our warrior spirit. Plus, I really suck at driving.

    And so, once again, like a true tard, we moved to adapt our tactics to best win the game, i.e. use our INS rule set. We started to put together a new standard for using the Airborne tactic effectively.



    Find good pilot.
    Request pilot recon AO, so that we can mark outlaying outposts and/or enemy supporting fire positions.
    Plot likely enemy movements and dispositions around the AO as the enemy reacts to the large BLUFOR assault.
    Select Drop zone with the lowest possible visibility to the enemy.
    Get underway when the large BLUFOR force makes contact with the enemy.
    Instruct team to equip pilot kits, board chopper and request chopper move to 700-900m above DZ and hold.
    Instruct team to jump, by name, one at a time, about every two seconds, until I am the last out.
    Rally on supply drop, which was dropped after we jumped, to gather kits and move to destroy cache.
    Establish safe LZ, if possible, for exfil and regroup at main.

    Notice if you replace "Pilot" with "SL", "DZ" with "INFIL route", and remove the points involving the actual jump, these are exactly the steps taken by a small light INF force assaulting a cache from the ground.

    Also notice, as with other tactics utilized in PR, much of this has parallels in real life. Not because I tried to do it that way, but because the design of the game makes that the most effective means. I have two objectives in INS. One, minimize casualties and asset breakage. Two, destroy the caches.

    Dropping right on top of the enemy does not fulfill these objectives. Neither does dropping in an unorganized fashion without proper intel and planning. We learned that the hard way, and adapted. This tactic is simply a way of deploying into the AO. For Archer, my team jumps, because that is the best way to fulfill those critical first steps in the rule set.

    "Play the game the way it's meant to be played".

    This is a rule which keeps tards from abusing game mechanics. The question is, who is the object in that sentence? If it is the DEVs, then be advised this capability in the Canadian forces for using airborne tactics of deployment will be removed next patch. If it is the ADMINS who decide the "meant to be", then it is a question of how the tactic effects the server at large. The immediate consequences for OPFOR when this tactic is employed are; more BLUFOR crewmen kits available for pickup, and a requirement to defend the cache location on the weak flanks and the cache location exactly, rather than just zerging toward BLUFOR fire. Also, more techy patrols, which is how I would counter an Airborne squad as INS. Might have just shot myself in the foot there.
    Stay together, communicate, don't give up.

    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

    Question: What happens if the LZ you are dropped into is already under fire, and the crates are not close nearby? How do you defend yourself?

    Another question: Wasn't the pistol removed from the pilot kit for reasons similar to this?
    Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
    Level II Volunteer FireFighter
    Level I HazMat Technician
    NYS EMT-B
    Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

    sigpic




    Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
    RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
    Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
    Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
    We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

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    • #3
      Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

      Originally posted by Delta*RandyShugart* View Post
      Question: What happens if the LZ you are dropped into is already under fire, and the crates are not close nearby? How do you defend yourself?

      Another question: Wasn't the pistol removed from the pilot kit for reasons similar to this?
      they get gunned down.

      somewhat of an abuse of the system, but looks fun.

      "All of you stay frickin high speed. All you stay on your frickin primaries and frickin slay bodies all day long. Good to go" -Combat Ninja lol

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

        it's fun as hell. a nice twist from the usual.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

          Originally posted by Delta*RandyShugart* View Post
          Question: What happens if the LZ you are dropped into is already under fire, and the crates are not close nearby? How do you defend yourself?

          Another question: Wasn't the pistol removed from the pilot kit for reasons similar to this?
          Just like what happens if you don't plan a proper helicopter drop with caution and get unlucky; they die.
          As long as it's done with proper planning and is still part of working as a team, I don't personally see anything wrong.

          Pistols were removed from pilot kits to stop them running into battle with pilot kits. If you can get a crate at the DZ, it simulates how Paratroopers do their thing (all landing in a safe zone, readying their weapons and moving out from there).

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          • #6
            Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

            Originally posted by Delta*RandyShugart* View Post
            Question: What happens if the LZ you are dropped into is already under fire, and the crates are not close nearby? How do you defend yourself?


            Another question: Wasn't the pistol removed from the pilot kit for reasons similar to this?

            1. If the chopper is under fire. You don't drop out. Insight: The 'E' button is completely optional to press while inside the helicopter.
            Alternatively if the enemy has moved onto the crates and waits for you to jump out before engaging. Good for them. You deserve to die and rethink your assault.

            2. Was not the pistol was removed because of dropping - being used as a means of sending troops into a hot LZ armed (poorly) which led to a 'tard rush' mentality, surrendering tickets in larger numbers and just being an idiot.

            So my rant here... Why do people have a problem using Airborne Insertion. I can vouche, as since Paine has effectively SL'd me in this style of assault, that it is in no way the devilish game ruining method of gaming the game that people want it to be. Its simple. The goal is solely to safely place troops on the ground undetected in a strategically sound position with supplies on the ground waiting before the fact.
            How is this exploiting, cheating, overly advantageous against the enemy or heck - anyone else's problem. As long as they do it smart, safe and do it for the benefit of the team.

            It only becomes a problem when people start dropping into hot zones with intent to be rambo, crashing choppers, expending vast numbers of tickets ect.
            Then it becomes any other normal PR infraction leading to a teams ultimate failure.
            IE: If someone drives a Transport Truck Full of people into a Village in Archer - Knowing that the Enemy is deeply embedded on that location. They will Die.
            The common sense needed to avoid that scenario is all the needs to be applied to the Air Insertion Method.

            The 189th Infantry Brigade: Taking the 'the' out of psychotherapist since 2010.

            XFire: mrthomasking

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

              Tom. I don't think anyone has a problem, I just asked a few questions that is all.

              After the Officer, medic, and SAW kit is taken, which kits do you then have your squad mates take? The only reason I bring this up as an addendum to my first set of questions is because after those three kits are requested the only other kits are the specialty ones which many players (some will even say that the SAW shouldn't be taken out of the US/NATO Main) including myself really don't like to see taken out of the Main Base.

              Or have you tried the scenario in which you and a few of your squad mates jump out with you, get the officer kit, medic and saw and then set a rally so the rest spawn in without the need to pick up specialty kits?
              Last edited by Delta*RandyShugart*; 07-12-2010, 10:31 AM.
              Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
              Level II Volunteer FireFighter
              Level I HazMat Technician
              NYS EMT-B
              Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

              sigpic




              Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
              RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
              Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
              Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
              We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                I might sound a bit combative. But the arguments against this exist, albeit not on this thread (yet).
                Reference: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...hread-232.html

                As to what kits are grabbed, I would avoid AR and Special kits at all costs in field. A CAN faction crewman doesn't have nades but is just as good with its scope as rifleman standard. 2-3 crewman, plus officer and medic are all you really need. Shoot an insurgent next to the cache, grab the AK and put a full clip into it and it's down. However - The idea of having 2 people paradrop and then place a rally to insert is bloody brilliant. But does require most of the squad to be dead and ready to spawn in.

                The 189th Infantry Brigade: Taking the 'the' out of psychotherapist since 2010.

                XFire: mrthomasking

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                  Officer, Medic and Crewmen would be the 3 "necessary" kits (He said this in the OP, though it is a bit buried).
                  From there, you can beef up, if you really desire; SAW, Grenadier, Marksman, Rifleman AP.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                    If this is the round I think you're talking about... It helps to have a QUU sniper team driving around in a bentley setting up on your LZ before and during the drops. Its risky, but it's oh so much fun.

                    Snipers can take out the rpg and MG threats on approach... that generally distracts them enough to get the boys on the ground with their crate even if they see the chopper coming. And it attracts lots of bullets that would otherwise be flying at the LZ. BONUS!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                      Originally posted by WDT_Alpha_s9 View Post
                      If this is the round I think you're talking about... It helps to have a QUU sniper team driving around in a bentley setting up on your LZ before and during the drops. Its risky, but it's oh so much fun.

                      Snipers can take out the rpg and MG threats on approach... that generally distracts them enough to get the boys on the ground with their crate even if they see the chopper coming. And it attracts lots of bullets that would otherwise be flying at the LZ. BONUS!
                      I just saw the discussion on whether or not this is a valid tactic in the screenshot thread, and I now understand the purpose of this post.

                      Just pulling one random statement from the other thread... (not to pick on anyone in particular... it just seemed that this is the best description of the argument against this tactic):

                      "However, troops parachuting into a combat situation expecting to meet heavy resistance without and form of weaponry I'd see as unrealistic and striving for realism is the TG way. In my books it's a no."

                      They took weaponry... crates are the ultimate weapon! Any kit you can imagine, and if you get lucky you can drop it on an enemy for a free kill! Plus ammo for any type of weapon your force can use, and apparently the opposing forces as well providing that you have a key for the crate.

                      I see this as a workaround for fastropes. You're a lot more vulnerable as you deploy... you have no weapon when you hit the ground and pulling it off while under fire is impractical if not impossible. It does however limit chopper exposure (deployment requires less time for the chopper to be in immediate danger than landing and taking off) and allows for deployment into areas that a chopper can't easily land in (forests, mountainous regions, water... good luck getting a kit lol).

                      Combined with intel and fire support from other team(s) on the ground already, this tactic has proven it can be used effectively. The only question I guess is whether or not it's an exploit of the game engine. I think the argument that it's not realistic should only be applied to the methods we are forced to use in order to employ the tactic, not in the tactic itself.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                        Well it is damned silly.
                        Skud


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                          [posted as a player]The Devs removed parachutes from regular kits/removed the pilot kit pistol and limited the number of paratrooper kits to certain maps intentionally. The ability of a chopper to drop a crate at high speed is a bug, when corrected it will require a chopper to pretty much hover over the spot the crate is to be dropped in a way that would make it really easy just to hop out and skip the whole parachute thing.

                          A 16km map is a hot zone, dropping unarmed pilot kits or even paratroopers in modern times into that area is pretty unrealistic. It is obviously gaming the game and one more reason FoBs/APCs/trans choppers should be kit request locations and crates only used for ammo or building.[/posted as a player]
                          |TG-6th|Snooggums

                          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                            That said, Yamalia and Silent Eagle have choppers for the sides with paratroopers, so requesting your basic kit with a parachute and jumping out of the chopper at altitude on those maps makes sense.
                            |TG-6th|Snooggums

                            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Quu, it gives you wings.

                              I'm Confused.

                              1. If the Devs removed the parachute to prevent normal kits and kits with weapons from paradropping on certain maps, they have succeeded and nothing is being exploited in that manor. Because they can't. That is just a literal translation, not trying to be a jerk... If they want to remove paradrops all together from certian maps then do pilot kits really need chutes at all?? I can't count on one finger how many times I've seen a pilot eject because of an AA lock or use his chute for any reason to safe guard his life.

                              2. Did I miss something somewhere? Did someone exploit a chopper bug in order to accomplish an airborne insertion? I don't fly choppers, but i was under the impression that crates could only be dropped at low altitudes - 50m or so.. or else they destroyed on contact. Anytime I have seen this tactic executed the chopper pilots were delivering crates and had to hover long enough in the predetermined landing area to drop crates.

                              3. Also I'm confused about the map size comment. You said a 16km map is a hot zone, therefore making paradropping unrealistic ergo gaming the game - breaking realism? But maps in PR like Yamalia and Silent Eagle are only 4Km, yet you said on YAMAL and SILEAG that parachutes are okay? Did I miss something?

                              The 189th Infantry Brigade: Taking the 'the' out of psychotherapist since 2010.

                              XFire: mrthomasking

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