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  • Civi kills

    One thing that really annoys me about insurgency is that some guys, when playing as BluFor, don't give a damn about killing civis, despite the current penalties that come with it.

    I gave it some thougt the other day and I also read a quote by some general, whose name I don't remember, that said something like "If you kill a civilian, you're turning 10 innocent people into insurgents". That made me think of another sanction that I think would be quite realistic: Everytime a civilian gets killed outside the ROE, a temporary insurgent spawn point appears on a location near the death, which means the location can be reinforced more easily by other insurgents, emulating what the quote tried to say.

    I know there's a formal suggestions forum but I don't really participate in that forum, so I don't have the posts that it requires. Anyway, i just wanted to put it out there in case somebody wants to publish it where it belongs or simply to open the debate about the civi kills with the following question: Do you think the penalties are severe enough when punishing a civilian death outside the ROE?

    (Sorry about any grammar and other mistakes, I'm out of practice :icon_lol:)

    In-Game: |TG-Irr|Dreves

  • #2
    Re: Civi kills

    The problem with the whole civi thing is that there are no real civilians on insurgency, only collaborators. And that's what they do, collaborate with the enemy. If you see a "civi" on a rooftop eyeing you with binos, you can be sure as hell he is guiding a squad to your position or setting up markers for an rpg attack. And don't even get me started about civis jumping ontop of armored vehicles just to annoy/distract the crew, or intentionally walking into your line of fire to make you lose intel points.

    I usually try not to shoot these unarmed insurgents, but if i suspect a threat from them and we have both cache locations on the map, i don't hesitate to pull the trigger. Just like this

    The basic idea of having to avoid pissing off the local population is very good, but the current implementation is flawed and easily exploitable. So instead of introducing further punishment, my opinion is that the devs need to rethink the civi kit and maybe even insurgency alltogether.
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    • #3
      Re: Civi kills

      Another problem that I can see might occur here is that when insurgency was first introduced there were random spawn point around them map to be able to implement this you would have to reintroduce this system. The problem with the original IIRC was that it resulted in too many networkable objects on the map which is what caused the crashes when changing to a new map. If I remember wrong well hey its a long time.
      If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks



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      • #4
        Re: Civi kills

        I agree there should be stiffer penalties for killing a civilian.
        What about a 3 min period where insurgent spawn time is cut to 10-15 seconds in order to simulate the increased recruitment ?
        You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
        So that when they turn their backs on you,
        You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

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        • #5
          Re: Civi kills

          I think the penalties are fine. As already pointed out in this thread, there are no civilians, there are Insurgents and Dickers (Collaborators to the non-Brits). And I shoot them. A lot. And I like it.

          Why you ask? Because every time I try to "Arrest" one I end up dead because he runs and picks up a rifle.

          And it is fun to head shot a dicker. They stand there with their hands up, giving info. Then boom. It is better as blu-for imo in some circumstances to kill them and stop the intel on location/strength than to play cat and mouse.

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          • #6
            Re: Civi kills

            I believe I had a signature for such events...

            Skud


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            • #7
              Re: Civi kills

              I say shoot them under the right circumstances. It's better to shoot a "dicker" and lose some intel rather than get mortars lobbed on your head. Besides that, they are only considered a collaborator if they haven't picked up a gun or med pack within three minutes. (I think it's three minutes?) This means that if they just picked up a civi kit or just healed somebody, they are still a valid target under the existing ROE for three minutes. Thus, I have shot many a civi only to find out that they weren't so civil after all.

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              • #8
                Re: Civi kills

                i never kill unarmed. penalty or no penalty. legal or ilegally. i enjoy my game that way.

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                • #9
                  Re: Civi kills

                  Played Collaborator for a whole round of Karbala last night and BlueFor shot me at least 10 times. I was arrested only once as I recall.

                  |

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                  • #10
                    Re: Civi kills

                    Originally posted by GoreZiad View Post
                    i never kill unarmed. penalty or no penalty. legal or ilegally. i enjoy my game that way.
                    me too.
                    some guy raised his hands to my brdm yesterday. i got out, dropped my kit, and raised my hands. then we bowed to each other. /true story

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                    • #11
                      Re: Civi kills

                      i get involved in those kind of rarities quite often, and so often some idiot comes around the corner and kills us both (his teammate too) because his brain just exploded from what he saw.
                      you guys know who you are.

                      +rep to you seal.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Civi kills

                        Played Collaborator for a whole round of Karbala last night and BlueFor shot me at least 10 times. I was arrested only once as I recall.


                        Fun fun fun

                        The 189th Infantry Brigade: Taking the 'the' out of psychotherapist since 2010.

                        XFire: mrthomasking

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                        • #13
                          Re: Civi kills

                          If you are blufor and want to shoot unarmed civi's or insurgents which have dropped their kits and waited the official time needed to be civi's you are only hindering your fellow teammates.

                          Each time a civi is killed, not arrested you contribute to your team losing intel points in order to find a weapons cache.

                          Yes there might be those select few times when it is warranted but there are only those select times.


                          I think the penalties are fine also, a part of me would love to see stiffer penalties invoked but there are only 32 players on a side, and my hat is off to those players who decide to play as a civilian.

                          Maybe in future versions of PR the insurgent side will have everyone spawn as a civi and then they will get their weapons off of the cache if they decide to do so.
                          Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                          Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                          Level I HazMat Technician
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                          Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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                          Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
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                          • #14
                            Re: Civi kills

                            I have found that on larger open insurgent maps - namely Ramiel - having collab squad leaders is invaluable to the team.

                            A few civi led squads posted up around a cache, using well placed markers, allow the US troops little chance to approach stealthy to any position.

                            On smaller maps it begins to become more difficult to maintain insurgent troop levels with less places to hide a fob or keep civilians safe from arrest.

                            The 189th Infantry Brigade: Taking the 'the' out of psychotherapist since 2010.

                            XFire: mrthomasking

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                            • #15
                              Re: Civi kills

                              We played Fallujah earlier today and I think I saw more civi's today than normal. NONE of them were engaged by BlueFor, but SEVERAL of them were arrested. However, a few of those arrests led to some dead BlueFor, because the civi's led them right into an ambush.

                              Perhaps we need a thread arguing the finer points of how to be a civi and not get shot?

                              I don't know, to me it seems killing a civi is like running over a bad guy with a truck. They are targets of opportunity, and if you're not out JUST trying to kill civi's or JUST run people over, I think it's a fair part of the game and part of what makes the game so cool. Yes, there are consequences for your actions and the actions of your team mates, but I think we should leave it to the SL's and the chain of command to figure out when a civi is a valid target.

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