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  • Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

    Do it the Cavalry Scout way!!! (Exerpt from FM 17-98 Thank the folks over at the pentagon for this info, I'm just passing it along and have used this information succesfully on the real battlefield and in-game))


    Air defense

    Air defense assets are scarce; maneuver units cannot plan on always receiving dedicated air defense protection. Consequently, the scout platoon must be able to protect itself from enemy air attacks during all combat operations. Passive air defense measures employed by the platoon include actions to avoid detection and air attack and actions to limit the damage if attacked. If necessary, the platoon takes active air defense measures to fight back against the enemy aircraft.

    The scout platoon must be aware when the enemy is employing airborne reconnaissance, intelligence, surveillance, and target acquisition (RISTA) systems that can detect and pinpoint the location of friendly ground forces. These systems emphasize rapid downlink of collected information to artillery and tactical ballistic missile (TBM) fire control centers and enemy maneuver forces.

    Armed utility and attack helicopters are the principal enemy CAS weapon systems. These platforms pose a major threat to the scout platoon and other friendly forces. The enemy may also employ unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) to accomplish RISTA, attack, and deception missions; UAVs’ small size and radar cross section and their ability to fly low and slow make them very difficult to detect track and engage.

    PASSIVE AIR DEFENSE
    Passive air defense is the scouts’ first line of defense against enemy air attack. It includes all measures, other than active defense, taken to minimize the effects of hostile air action. There are two types of passive air defense: attack avoidance and damage-limiting measures.

    Attack avoidance

    If the enemy pilot cannot find you, he cannot attack you. Scouts use concealment, camouflage, deception, and any other necessary action to prevent the enemy from seeing them.

    Scout positions must provide effective concealment. One technique is to position vehicles inside woodlines and erase vehicle track marks leading to the woods. When concealment is not available, however, vehicles must be camouflaged to blend into the natural surroundings. All shiny objects that could reflect light and attract attention must be covered.

    Damage-limiting measures

    Dispersion is one of the most effective ways to reduce the effects of enemy air attack. It is essential when a unit is occupying static positions such as an assembly area or is preparing to cross a water obstacle or a breached obstacle. When the platoon is on the move and air guards identify an enemy air attack, vehicles disperse quickly, move to concealed positions if possible, and stop (a stationary vehicle is more difficult to see than a moving vehicle).

    Another damage-limiting measure is the use of natural or man-made cover to reduce the effects of enemy munitions. Folds in the earth, depressions, buildings, and sandbagged positions can provide this protection.

    ACTIVE AIR DEFENSE
    Although passive measures are the first line of defense against air attack, the scout platoon must be prepared to engage enemy aircraft. The decision to fight back against an air threat is based on the situation and the capabilities of organic weapon systems. (NOTE: All platoon members must understand that they can defend against a direct attack but cannot engage aircraft that are not attacking them unless the applicable weapons control status allows it.)

    Scouts have several weapon systems (chain guns, machine guns, and small arms) that can be used against aircraft when they must fight back. Engaging aircraft with volume fire is the key to effective use of small arms and machine gun fires against an air attack. These fires must be coordinated to be effective. Delivered on the platoon leader’s command, they are directed at an aim point in front of the target (see Figure 6-15); gunners do not attempt to track the target. Guidelines for selecting aim points are listed in Figure 6-16. They are simple and logical; they must be learned and retained by everyone in the platoon.

    Figure 6-15. Aim points.

    Figure 6-16. Guidelines for selecting aim points.

    The Bradley’s 25-mm gun is effective against slow-moving fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters, and UAVs. Vehicle commanders should instruct their gunners to fire 20- to 25-round bursts at a high rate to sustain the proper volume of fire when engaging these platforms. Accurate target identification is essential in determining the type of ammunition to employ.





    ----Written before the Bradley Linebacker came out...which is active AA, and can fire up to 4 AA missles at a go! More on AA tactics actually using the right vehicle later.

  • #2
    Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

    I'm positive I should have learned something from that, but it just confused me. It would also be hard to judge the length of a football field in game right, or am I missing something. Gah, it's late, thanks for posting though. The information will be recieved by some other members I'm sure. Rep.

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    • #3
      Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

      You had me when you said "camoflauge vehicles"

      Is this BF2 or real life? :huh:

      Cause if you can camo vehicles in BF2, please tell me how :)

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      • #4
        Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

        Bushmaster does almost nothing to helos in this game.
        And the ballistics on pretty much every weapon are pretty far from real life.
        The main tank gun is a good simulation of an M203.

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        • #5
          Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

          Also the Jets move MUCH slower in BF2 than they would in real life for game play purposes.

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          • #6
            Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

            Well in regards to the bushmaster...

            Yea, it seriously sucks in its role as an AA vehicle.
            I've had better luck opening up with the .50 cal mounted on the tank turret then I have with the AA vehicles.

            Had a great little hide position, protected on three sides, about as invisible as you can get in a bradley (ie. not very) and an enemy gunship heli fly right over me and stopped...hovering, just asking for it...locked on, and dumped 4 SAM's right into its belly, shooting the guns the whole time. Sure, he started smoking and panic/flew away into a hilltop, but it wasn't a "kill" I could really feel good about.

            AA Vehicles = meh.
            (But they make great anti-infantry platforms)

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            • #7
              Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

              WOW....dint read it but the pictures are cool!
              that sounds like a good idea trooper.
              -Vulcan

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              • #8
                Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR]
                WOW....dint read it but the pictures are cool!
                Your tax dollars at work, my friend!

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                • #9
                  Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                  and i pay them gladly and willingly
                  that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                  -Vulcan

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                  • #10
                    Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                    I hope you're joking :)
                    |FDB|octavius

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                    • #11
                      Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                      Sorry to bump this, but I felt I had to add.
                      I've noticed few people use vehicle-mounted machine guns to try and take down helis. (the servers I played at least)
                      Also Support machine guns tend to gnaw away hitpoints slow but steadily once you put a chopper in your crosshairs.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                        Originally posted by Chimaeran13
                        Sorry to bump this, but I felt I had to add.
                        I've noticed few people use vehicle-mounted machine guns to try and take down helis. (the servers I played at least)
                        Also Support machine guns tend to gnaw away hitpoints slow but steadily once you put a chopper in your crosshairs.
                        I think people are just antsy to get into the mounted gun and attack a chopper. I always do, but like you say, you slowly chew away the armor while the attack chopper/blackhawk crew simply flicks thier finger and kills you. :)

                        Also, it's just my opinion, but having the stationary stinger missile emplacements destroyable is a big mistake... not that they really do much but it's nice to have at least some air defense when you need it.
                        Never lock the dogs when the wolf is in the darkness.
                        [age-c1][conduct]

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                        • #13
                          Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                          I feel ground anti air defenses are vastly underpowered, they just don't hit a target, the chance of shooting down a plane with anything is almost non-existend and only vehicle machine guns have a good shot at downing heli's but are a sitting duck.
                          A stinger missile should really be hard to aviod especially when in a chopper, not just pressing X or just speeding up a bit.




                          BF2 Name: Thez(NL)
                          BF2142 Names:
                          Thierry(NL) (Sniper)
                          Dikkiedik(NL) (Assault)
                          Kittekat(NL) (Engineer)
                          Dimi(NL) (Support)

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                          • #14
                            Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                            Stingers suck, pardon my french.
                            Half of the time a half-skilled pilot can dodge it, or the missile decides to take a bite out of another aircraft, giving you team vehicle damage crap minus point ;(

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                            • #15
                              Re: Want to kill aircraft while in a tank/APC?

                              After I spent about 15 hours in a jet, I knew exactly how to take down jets and Helos with ground-based AA.
                              The same would probably be true for you. Like many other things in the game, they are VERY effective - if you know how to use them.
                              "You live and learn. Or you don't live long."
                              - Lazarus Long

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