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  • Advanced SL Guide.

    This is just to get things started. Most of these are my observations by being a squaddie in different squads with great leaders. Please feel free to add anything that seems necessary, and correct my wrong assumptions. All additions will be added to this post.

    -------------------------------------Basics-----------------------------------

    1. Being a good SL starts with patience. Be patient with your CO. Be patient with your squaddies who are causing trouble.

    2. Always accept your fault. If u died so often admit it to your squaddies. I often say "Well I am getting my ass kicked."

    3. Remember you are not just a mobile spawn point. veteran TG players expect much more from a SL nowadays. Just hiding behind a hill does not cut it anymore. But do take care of yourself. DO try to stay alive. All that walking should not be wasted

    4. Be specific. Use the tools like compass directions to point out threats, to shift your squaddies' fire power to face the incoming threats.

    5. Be a nice bossy guy with a deep voice. haha. Be bossy indeed. And again be nice at the same time.

    6. Stay with your squad at all times. If u die leaving some men in the front lines tell them to hold on out there as long as possible and tell them "I will be right there."

    7. In my opinion SL's best class is Assault. Support, Medic, Engi classes get distracted by the duty they supposed to perform. Seeing your SL to abandon you to save some guy is just distracting I think.

    ---------------------------------Attacking Tactics---------------------------------

    The following are suggestions that a SL can use when attacking a base.

    1. Never ever keep pushing your squaddies. after trying the further discussed tactics, if u cannot get it u cannot get it. Making your squaddies die over and over again is harmful to your squad as well as the team

    2. Coordinate. Sending one guy to peek out of the corner to let him tell you what kind of threat we are facing. After your recon says 1 APC. Sending your AT with an assault to protect him from infantry attacks is good. Sending 2 people towards the right of the flag and 3 people from the left and letting the 3 engage first while your 2 flanks the defending squad is good. It is so good sometimes the flanking team can knife the fdefending fire team which is conctenrated to the completely opposite side.

    3. If your squad is stable (This can be determined by one round of kick ass gameplay and willing of your squaddies to work with the SL even more) devide them up into subteams. EX: Red Team, Blue team. Upon the arrival of outside of a base all you gotta say is "Red team right flank, Blue team charge hold on with me" Or Red team move in first; Blue team move in after 10 seconds. (This wave attack thing can be effective if the flag is defended by just a few people.)

    5. Move your men in formations. I have no idea how this works but I have heard CANavar was using it. I am guessing something like move in traingle formation so the two guys on the sides can watch threats from right and left or somewhere along that line. CANavar I would appreciate it if u share in greater detail.

    4. Vehicles. Bring em along. Few nice tactics I have seen is:
    - Buggies. One of best vehicles yet. Squad with 2 buggies can tear some stuff up. It is especially awesome for fast attacking and coordinating. But buggies should be used for transportation (park outside the base) and little bit of support role rather than head on.
    - Heavy Jeeps. Also nice stuff. its heavier armors makes the squads without AT tremble.
    - APC attack. Unload the SL further outside the base. Unload the rest of squaddies outside of the base. Once the infantries go in APC also follows them but stays a little outside to provide cover for respawning enemies while the infantries take care of ATs hiding behind cover who has their launcher in their hands. (This one only seems to work on enemy defensive infantry squad)
    - Tanks are opposite. Tanks move in first to be the fire drawer while the infantries flank. Their strong armor and huge firepower can take on squads with APCs, Jeeps, even Tanks.
    - Attack Helo. I am not a big fan of a squaddie who is obsessed with attack helo. But they can useful indeed for anti armor and supporting role.
    - Jets. I am in denial of any squaddie who wants to fly a jet. Create your own squad called AIR or something.

    5. SL change your position constantly. It gives your respawning squaddies to flank the nemey positions and you will be launching attacks from all over th place.


    ------------------------------Defensive Tactics------------------------------------

    1. Be specific. Again I cannot stress this enough. Some SL s just say "ok we are defending". it sounds boring and your squaddies have no idea what is going on. Have one man climb onto a higher ground where he can spot incoming threats. Make sure to cover all entrances. When threat is incoming give specific orders such as "C4 on the gate" (u can use your move here or demolitions needed here from your T menu to be more specific) "mine one SW road fast". ETC. Also make sure to shift your squaddies' positions to face the incoming threats. "Shift your positions to the NE"... But Leaving a AT or sniper on up top for him to see the whole battefield is always necessary in case the attacking enemy SL read this and trying to flank you.

    2. Use every kit you have.
    "Support les get some ammo pack on the roof where the sniper (AT) is"
    "Medic les get med packs around here"
    "Mine the South West and North East, Block us in."
    "C4 that entrance"
    "Sniper get on the roof, spot anything u see and let us know what is coming this way."

    3. Never ever hesitate to go on D. D is da way to go. Defense can as rewarding and as enjoyable as attacking.

    --------------------------------Starting the Round---------------------------------
    - communication with commander
    - a brief welcome to squad members, assignment of kits and vehicles


    ----------------------------------Maneuvering-------------------------------------

    - The best way of moving from one point to the other while keeping the team together seems to have a lead position which can be taken by squad leader or a member. In the specified formation, rest of the squad follows the lead without disrupting the formation, never gets in front of the lead. Until the target point reached, squad members should follow "enemy engagement" orders of the leader. This is especially important for sneaky surprise attacks in which "hold fire" order is issued.

    VOIP command: "Squad regroup on my position, column formation, hold your fire"

    - Flanking:

    Explanation in Story Mode:
    Your squad is moving through a lightly wooded area in a duel wedge formation. Suddenly you come under enemy fire from the front. The front wedge, Alpha team immediately drops to cover, and positions themselves in a line formation facing the enemy. Alpha team then opens up to engage and lays suppressive fire. While the enemy is suppressed the rear wedge, Bravo team, splits left or right on the direction of either the squad leader or the team leadert. Bravo team tactically runs left or right a good safe distance, then moves up parallel to the enemy line of fire and come in on the flank in a line formation. If it goes as planned, the suppression team is keeping the enemy pinned, creating a nice flank by the second team. Communication is key for timing and signaling the suppression team to shift fire away from the flanking side. The flanking team comes in and kills the enemy. (Taken from SimHQ)

    --------------------COMMUNICATION WITH COMMANDER----------------------------


    - If you are unable to comply with commander's attack orders;

    VOIP: "Commander, this is squad #, we are under attack ! request permission to defend current position"


    ----------------------------------Formations--------------------------------------
    When you move as a team there are a number of formations to use in land combat. The decision is dependent on the likelihood of enemy contact, and the type of terrain the team or squad will be moving over or through.

    - Column:

    You can move in column formation when enemy contact is less likely and the terrain is difficult. When you follow in this single column formation, maintain some distance in case of booby traps or a surprise grenade attack. (Taken from SimHQ)

    - Line:

    A line formation is when the team or squad moves up in a single line - say a ridge line to engage an enemy on the other side. It is effective when you're moving up to engage an enemy or to concentrate maximum firepower on a target. You're arm and arm next to each other; it's like a wall of soldiers advancing. (Taken from SimHQ)

    - Wedge:

    The wedge formation is the best formation when moving from point A to point B as a team or squad. If you're a squad then there will be at least two teams, (two wedges). A wedge will have a point man positioned ahead at the tip of the wedge; the team moves at his pace. If he stops then the team stops. If he approaches a danger zone or an enemy that hasn't seen the team, he would report back and the team leader (usually in the middle of the wedge to direct his soldiers) would issue the orders to either engage or go around the danger area. (taken from SimHQ)

    --------------------------SOME OTHER VOIP ORDERS-------------------------------


    - when there is too much radio chatter and/or you are communicating with Commander
    "Squad, kill the radio transmission" which can be followed by;
    "Squad resume radio transmission"
    Last edited by hedgehog; 07-11-2005, 05:24 PM.


  • #2
    Re: Advanced SL Guide.

    nice post !

    I thought a similar topic like;

    "
    How we can achieve a high-level of organization and coordination in squads?

    Are you asking yourself the same question? Do you feel a lack of team-spirit and effort in some or most of the games you played? Do you think it is possible to compile a simple set of rules, guides and commands which can significantly increase the level of team-work and coordination?

    "

    before I have seen your topic. so I will try to contribute here....

    I will try to approach from a practical and procedural point of view by suggesting tactics and then VOIP commands to achieve these.

    With the help of |=V=| B [Ssgt], we can update this first message after new additions to come up with a standard procedure for all of us.

    Under each topic we can list the advice, procedure/tactics and simple VOIP commands for procedures. Attack and Defense already covered nicely and can be improved over time. I want to add two new things;


    Starting the Round
    ------------------
    - communication with commander
    - a brief welcome to squad members, assignment of kits and vehicles


    Maneuvering
    ------------
    - The best way of moving from one point to the other while keeping the team together seems to have a lead position which can be taken by squad leader or a member. In the specified formation, rest of the squad follows the lead without disrupting the formation, never gets in front of the lead. Until the target point reached, squad members should follow "enemy engagement" orders of the leader. This is especially important for sneaky surprise attacks in which "hold fire" order is issued.

    VOIP command: "Squad regroup on my position, column formation, hold your fire"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Advanced SL Guide.

      To me, the most important thing a good SL can do is be that spawn point when out in the field. The farther you are from a spawn, the more important it is for the SL to stay out of trouble and alive. Of course this does not apply to defensive roles, or any time you are close enough to a spawn point that your role as a spawn point is moot.

      Here's the situation - you, SL, direct your squad to attack an enemy command point a few clicks away.

      DO: Travel in a way that protects the SL in route. Find a secure location to launch the attack from (possibly after sending in a scout and/or UAV). SL stays at the secure point to serve as spawn, possibly with one more squad member as support. Attack team goes in, again and again if needed.

      DON'T: Give an attack order and start running for the flag. SL gets gunned down, leaving the rest of the squad to fall apart, while the SL respawns way back at the previous spawn point, wasting everyone's time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Advanced SL Guide.

        good point AMosely, reminding "distance to spawn flag vs importance of SL survial" is necessary from time to time...

        some new additions to our compilation:

        COMMUNICATION WITH COMMANDER
        -------------------------------------

        - If you are unable to comply with commander's attack orders;

        VOIP: "Commander, this is squad #, we are under attack ! request permission to defend current position"


        Formations (can go under Maneuvering Section)
        ----------------------------------------------

        - Column: squad members follow the lead. best for moving from point A to B. Risk of detection is minimized.

        - Line: squad is aligned side by side. best for engaging enemy.

        - Wedge: best for moving from point A to B.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Advanced SL Guide.

          SOME OTHER VOIP ORDERS (we can classify them later)
          -----------------------------------------------------

          - when there is too much radio chatter and/or you are communicating with Commander
          "Squad, kill the radio transmission" which can be followed by;
          "Squad resume radio transmission"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Advanced SL Guide.

            thanks for the updates B ! this is getting better and better. lots of materials to study and discuss :)

            I have a comment on your SL's kit selection. one advantage of having med kit for squad leader is that he can heal himself under fire. there is no need for him to run for reviving because members can respawn on him. but he can also heal nearby members.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Advanced SL Guide.

              I'm trying to peel my brother away from warcraft to play this game. He's been in the marines for many years and has twiced served in Iraq as a squad leader. He now trains Close quarter combat to the new recruits...I'm hoping he gets his ass online so we can try some real military tactics to see how they work.

              We used to play rainbow six on xbox together and him and I would use his tactics and most of the time it worked so it's kind of neat. Problem is most of those tactics/formations work in the real world but tend to fall apart when the enemy has no fear of dying(no fear in that they know they will respawn) and or real world physics to stop them.

              Case in point. You are in a line formation moving slowly along a hilly field. You pause and kneel as the point man crawls to the ridge to overlook the objective.

              Suddenly you see the the point guy flying through the air as a buggy comes screaming over the hill horn blaring and he runs over the entire squad in one pass.


              haha

              Anyways you get what I mean....


              I have to admit I've been a little shy as SL and not chatting and commanding as much as I should. I guess most people on the server would like orders. In fact I remember one time I asked my squad to fall back and they actually did and I was totally blown away that they had listened to me.

              Anyways. once I have confirmation my brother is on I'll get him on these forums and get him online.. If you see someone named dirty2/2 that should be him....


              Great thread...Keep posting ideas. Oh one thing I noticed that my Speaker Icon when I'm speaking more than a few words turns red with a crack in it... i wonder if I'm breaking up when talking lately...Anyone else getting that?
              *********************
              |TG|Tony

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                ahhh.. ok.. i'll turn down boost a bit...I kept dunking it in my beer when I was playing..My wife kept laughing because my eyes were glued to the screen while I grabbed my pint and the mouth piece went for a dunk.....

                I'll move it away too. Make room for the glass :)
                *********************
                |TG|Tony

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                  Your mic must smell just lovely... lol, mmm stale beer mic

                  a comment on formations: they can be anything from a simple line, with the SL in the middle for protection... to the squad being split on two sides of a road moving along buildings for cover and watching over each other.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                    hey TEMM,

                    that was initially what I tried; putting myself in the middle but if you dont have an experienced player leading the column, then squad ends up in hell.

                    therefore just for sake of a good approach to target, now I prefer to take the lead of my squad. when we are very close to target point, we change formation, I move back.

                    as Big Tony also mentioned, sometimes military tactics dont work very well in games.

                    My solution to this as follows;
                    - find a military tactic to test in game
                    - test and see how it works
                    - modify it it make a hybrid military/game tactic

                    @Bigtony,

                    looking forward to see your brother's contributions... thanks for the education support :)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                      B - Respectfully submit these additions:

                      Basics:
                      Soldiers: If you want to get revived, make sure you die near cover.
                      Medics: Don't go out in the open killing field to revive your soldier who just failed to die near cover. Let him respawn, or the next two guys who die in cover won't have you around to get them back in the fight.

                      Alternative to flanking:
                      Same story, this time Alpha lays down suppressive fire (note - always best to have your support guy among the players laying down the suppression, yes?), and Bravo chucks a couple grenades at the enemy position.
                      If you feel you had good accuracy with them, Bravo can charge straight forward immediately following the detonation, on either side, while Alpha continues to suppress survivors.
                      May not work - but it's a lot faster tactic than flanking. By the way, I'm not suggesting this is BETTER than flanking. Just an alternative. Sometimes the game moves faster than life, and players are less afraid to die than real soldiers.

                      Squad leader - if you go down, SAY SO IMMEDIATELY ("SL DOWN!") so a squad medic can get you up as priority #1.
                      "You live and learn. Or you don't live long."
                      - Lazarus Long

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                        as Big Tony also mentioned, sometimes military tactics dont work very well in games.
                        I'm finding this to be true in *many* cases with BF2 which is why I end up just trying to stick to the basics like merely keeping the squad together and focused on the main objective.

                        The hardest part for me so far (and one of the reasons I want to try out fire teams) is remembering names and tracking who does what! I think once I can just say "alpha, get in that tanK", "bravo, move to those trees" that more advanced/efficient tactics will be presented naturally....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                          Thank you for additions and I am learning a lot from the sugestions.

                          Please keep adding suggestions as one day at work I will summarize them up....

                          As for now I cannot edit my first post... But I am sure your suggestions are teaching rookie SL s a lot of new things.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                            Originally posted by TG_Rizzo
                            I'm finding this to be true in *many* cases with BF2 which is why I end up just trying to stick to the basics like merely keeping the squad together and focused on the main objective.

                            The hardest part for me so far (and one of the reasons I want to try out fire teams) is remembering names and tracking who does what! I think once I can just say "alpha, get in that tanK", "bravo, move to those trees" that more advanced/efficient tactics will be presented naturally....
                            +1 Here. I find suppression fire really doesn't work that well. No one's scared of it.

                            I am the same way with formations. They break down because people lose track of where the rest of the formation is. The formations that work are ones with 2 to 3 people maximum and where the players can see each other. That means wedge & column

                            Here is my quick breakdown of how to run a squad.

                            1. Buddy people into pairs. "Joe, you and Bob are buddies so Joe you go where Bob goes and shoot what Bob shoots." "Same for you Bob...go where Joe goes and shoot where Joe shoots."

                            2. If necessary, assign the point-man and cover-man for each pair. "Joe, since you're support, you're the point-man. Bob, since you're a medic, you're the cover-man."

                            3. Divvy up the objective. "Joe & Bob, I want you to flank right around the perimeter and clear it on your way in." "Me & Mike are going to flank left around the perimeter and clear it on our way in." "Jim & John, hang back and, as soon as you hear us engage, make a bee-line to the flagpole, start the cap and cover outwards." (Offensive orders are given relative to the approach (left/right/front/back)).

                            4. Divvy up the defense. "Ok, Joe & Bob, you have the north side entrance next to that big silo thingy. Jim & John, you have the south side entrance next to that building. Mike, you drive the APC. I will man the AA." (Defensive orders are given in absolute compass directions or with landmarks.)

                            If #3 sounds suspiciously like fire-teams, Areas-of-Responsibility (AOR) perimeter (wall) flood, and penetration-flood, well hmm, then...

                            But even this requires about a week of practice, in my experience. Formations more complicated that 2-man start breaking down even still. Defenses other than perimeter & radius also seem to break down. Assigning buddies and sectors seems to have the most bang-for-buck.

                            http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/user/58Congo/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Advanced SL Guide.

                              @Rizzo,
                              that's a delicate balance. simulating a military experience by adjusting the dosage of things. I believe it can work for several military tactics, basic or advanced. it just needs patience and a dedicated group of players.

                              I guess in time it is going to become better and better. I can see the fruits of some trials already. here is an example of how using a "column formation" helped our squad:

                              1) it keeps the squad together (less risk of detection, concentrated fire power)

                              2) you can lead the squad following any path you want. or you can leave leading to an experienced member of the squad. inexperienced squad members tend to follow the path on map when an attack order is given. it is usually the worst path to follow; frontal assault. using "move here" "move there" commands take a lot of time and not accurate on map. so the best solution I could find so far is the lead position. before we applied this successfully, it was a great problem to coordinate the squad. members were running ahead, scattered and screwing element of surprise.

                              Comment

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