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  • Dedicated Roles and Squads

    Dedicated Roles

    I don’t know if this topic is covered elsewhere or not. My apologies if I am starting it again.

    Something that I would like to see, and I am fairly certain it will happen here at TG as we all become more familiar with the game, is for players to become more dedicated to a role, and for those players to create dedicated squads based on those roles.

    I am writing this from the point of view of a Commander, but it applies to all levels I believe.

    I think this is important because it has the potential to reduce the chaos of combat and help streamline command and control for the Commander and Squad leaders. After all, good command and control is good for the whole team.

    Some examples to illustrate and explain my thinking follow.

    Kits
    From a players perspective, ask yourself, what is your favorite kit / kits? Can you be content playing that one kit or just a few kits throughout the game? What is your primary function or favorite duty? Do you prefer the heat of frontline combat or do you prefer a more supportive role? These are questions to consider when deciding where you will fit and what squad to join or create to best support your team.

    Once you have a good handle on what kits most suit your playing style, try to stick with them throughout the game.

    Squad Leaders should ensure that their squads contain the appropriate mix of units.

    TG Rizzo made a great post about Fire Teams that you can read here http://www.tacticalgamer.com/showthr...5&page=3&pp=15 .

    As he does, I would suggest that Squad Leaders split their squads into 2 or 3 fire teams either like he suggests

    “Alpha: Assault, Assault/Support
    Bravo: Assault, Assault/Support
    Charlie: Medic, Assault (Squad Leader)”

    for 3 teams of 6 men, or as I might do for 2 teams of 6 men, for example.

    FT 1: Assault, Assault*, Support
    FT2: Medic, Anti-Tank, Squad Leader*
    * Interchangeable. Dependant on mission profile and squad function. Could be Assault, Medic, Special Ops, Engineer or Sniper.

    Here is more good info from another post in the fire teams thread.

    Originally posted by John CANavar

    Infantry Fire Teams (with typical class assignments)
    Alpha (flank): fire team leader (assault), member (support)
    Bravo (suppress): fire team leader (assault), member (anti-tank)
    Charlie: squad leader (special forces), member (medic)

    Armor Fire Teams (with typical class and vehicle assignements)
    Alpha: fire team leader (engineer) and member (anti-tank) in APC or Tank or Mobile AA
    Bravo: fire team leader (engineer) and member (anti-tank) in APC or Tank or Mobile AA
    Charlie: squad leader (engineer) and member (anti-tank) in APC

    Armor and Air Fire Teams (with typical class and vehicle assignements)
    Alpha: fire team leader (engineer) and member (anti-tank) in APC or Tank or Mobile AA
    Bravo: fire team leader (engineer) and member (anti-tank) in attack chopper
    Charlie: squad leader (engineer) and member (anti-tank) in APC

    Hybrid Fire Teams
    Any combination of the teams described above

    Note: Class and vehicle assignment is a dynamic process and depends on mission, location and enemy threat.

    Now that we have established the importance of Kit selection and squad structure, lets look at how it fits into the bigger picture.

    As a commander, I would ideally like to see something like this in my Squad list.

    For 16 player teams.
    Squads:
    Squad 1. Assault Infantry Squad. 6 men.
    Breakdown: Fire team 1. Assault, Assault, Support
    Fire team 2. Assault, AT, Medic

    Squad 2. Assault Armor Squad. 5 men.
    Breakdown: Armor 1. Engineer (Armor commander), Engineer (Gunner)
    Armor 2. Engineer (Armor commander), Support (Gunner)
    APC 1. Medic (APC commander)

    Squad 3. Special Ops. 1 or 2 men.
    Breakdown: Special Ops, Sniper

    Squad 4. Gunship. 2 men.
    Breakdown: Engineer (Gunner and Squad Leader), Medic (Pilot)

    Squad 5. Air Superiority. 1 man if available.
    Breakdown: any kit (Fighter Pilot)

    16th man. Commander. Probably best as an Engineer.

    For 32 player teams.
    Squads:
    Squad 1. Assault Infantry Squad. 6 men.
    Breakdown: Fire team 1. Assault, Assault, Support
    Fire team 2. Assault, AT, Medic

    Squad 2. Assault Armor Squad. 5 men.
    Breakdown: Armor 1. Engineer (Armor commander), Engineer (Gunner)
    Armor 2. Engineer (Armor commander), Support (Gunner)
    APC 1. Medic (APC commander)

    Squad 3. Assault Infantry Squad. 6 men.
    Breakdown: Fire team 1. Assault, Assault, Support
    Fire team 2. Assault, AT, Medic.

    Squad 4. Assault Armor Squad. 5 men.
    Breakdown: Armor 1. Engineer (Armor commander), Engineer (Gunner)
    Armor 2. Engineer (Armor commander), Support (Gunner)
    APC 1. Medic (APC commander)

    Squad 5. Special Ops. 2 men.
    Breakdown: Special Ops, Sniper or 2 Special Ops

    Squad 6. Special Ops. 2 men.
    Breakdown: Special Ops, Sniper or 2 Special Ops

    Squad 7. Gunship. 2 men.
    Breakdown: Engineer (Gunner and Squad Leader), Medic (Pilot)

    Squad 8. Transport. 1 man.
    Breakdown: Medic (Blackhawk Pilot)

    Squad 9. Air Superiority. 2 men.
    Breakdown: Any kit. (Fighter Pilots)

    32nd man. Commander. Probably best as an Engineer.

    As one might imagine, a team setup such as this could greatly increase the chances for victory for that team. With Armor and Infantry squads moving and attacking / defending together, and with the air support dedicated so that it can be easily called onto a target by the commander, it is difficult to see how this setup might go wrong if executed properly.

    A solid force structure and a sound strategy for deployment of that force are, I believe, the keys to victory.
    This sort of force set up would obviously take some messing around to implement within the game, but it is my hope that people will get onboard with this idea and begin structuring their squads and teams in a similar fashion to begin with.

    All comments are welcome.

    -Nyram
    Sarcasm - It keeps me from killing people.

    Let me introduce you to the Chain of Command.
    It is this big damn chain that I beat you with until you understand who is in charge!

  • #2
    Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

    Nyram, i totaly agree with you. I am new to FPS games, but have almost 5 years experience in MMOs and PvP MMOs. I know that a good mix and balance of classes (Kits) is key to easy, and consistant victory. This is one of the reasons i picked up BF2, was epic, squad based action. I hope to see some TG Teams (16 and 32 people) built up and start competing with Clans someday. For now, i'll just fall in line and play my game the best I can.

    Zarku

    Sniper/Spec Ops/Pilot

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

      Commander best as sniper.

      Hide up in a room all by yourself, leave claymores at the ladder. entrances. Procced with the commanding.
      Power may grow from the barrel of a gun, but control....... stems from the 1st and the 15th.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

        Good stuff. I'd love to see the day when CO's and SL's have this type of pre-planning coordination established and ready to go for each map.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

          I think that is the difficulty Rizzo - the preplanning. If it were for an organised match then I think this is more than possible, as we would all be so excited about the game we'll be hashing it to death on here for the week leading up to it.

          However once a game is started... well it's difficult!


          Rather than go for such a rigid setup as that I prefer to go for a style for my squad. And that style is a ground work versatile squad (maybe with a gunship if Cymba joins, in the same style as Phelan_Ward plays).

          I like to have 2 medics, 1 support, 1 assault and 1 anti-tank, with me as Spec Ops. This gives good all round ability. If I need to I will ask people to switch classes to do this, or as the situation depends. If we're defending a building that has lots of armour rolling in then I'll prob ask one medic to switch to AT for example.

          The problem is I'd like everyone here to know what squad THE WULFYN 's style is, but then if you advertise too much people just think you're an egocentric ass. ;)

          Because of this I try and work with my squad and CO in game as much as possible. It can be difficult, but the results are definitely worth it. (ps nothing better than when you get people like Bommando join your squad and the first thing they ask you for is what class you need. Parfait.)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

            Wulfyn, I agree it's very tough to do in practice. I think we need to start at the squad level. Maybe we should design our squads (offline, here) to compliment one another in-game rather than try to make single squads that try do everything...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

              After making post to start this thread last night, I jumped onto BF2 server 2 and started playing in a squad. that match (Kubra Dam) ended in defeat for USMC. Upon loading Gulf of Oman as the next map, I jumped into the commanders chair and decided to try out my own tactic.

              I posted a little writeup about it after the match, (you can link to that thread at the end of this one) but I shall give a quick overview here.
              The first thing I did was greet my squad leaders and make sure they were all alive and alert. Then I told them in as simple english as possible that I wanted 5 dedicated squads. One armor, one infantry, one spec ops, a cobra gunship with gunner and pilot and a jet fighter.

              Then I let them sort things out. There was about 2 minutes of chaos as they sorted things out, and I kept them up to date as positions were filled.
              After that, I had almost exactly the squads that I was looking for, except that I had 2 jets instead of one... no big deal, (actually worked out really well that way) and we proceded to soundly trounce MEC.

              All in all a great match.
              I would suggest that commanders have a strategy in mind before begining play, let your squadleaders know your plans by MIC and typing (not typing alone) immidiately upon joining the game and then do your best to do your job as commander and support your squads, and let your SL's do their job in leading their men.

              I cannot stress enough the importance of communication. I regularly checked up on each and every squad, to make sure they were getting the support that they needed. Because of that, the squad leaders quickly realised that I was commanding for more than the chance to drop arty and boss them around. They started taking innitiative to cover the sectors of the map that I had assigned to them, and began calling in air support from my dedicated gunship and jet squads. (which worked more effectively than arty imo!!)

              Maybe I was just lucky that match. It is possible. It will take more than one win with this system to see if it is effective or not. Regardless, I hope this thread will continue to stimulate conversation and thought.

              Thanks for taking the time to read my long damn posts :P
              -Nyram

              (link to Gulf of Oman thread)
              http://www.tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=56876
              Sarcasm - It keeps me from killing people.

              Let me introduce you to the Chain of Command.
              It is this big damn chain that I beat you with until you understand who is in charge!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                yah when i command i am a sniper so i can guard the base...but in your tactics you dint mention a sniper at all, or i may have missed it..using snipers effectively can change an entire battle in less then 6 shots. havein maybe 6 snipers per 32 or 20 players is good...they can cover and look out more then people think...
                that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                -Vulcan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                  Yes, I agree Trooper, sniper is one of my fav classes, tho I am not so good at it in BF2 yet as I have been in other games... im too damn rusty.

                  But I hear what you are saying. I fully know the power of a sniper used effectively.

                  However, as a commander, I pretty much leave it up to the SL do determine what kits are in his squad. If I have asked him to be a ground infantry assault squad with a good mix of troops, but the squad is all special ops lets say, then I will ask the SL to fix the situation immidiately. Otherwise I try not to micromanage too much. It just tends to piss people off in my experience. I will happily give polite but pointed suggestions, but let the SL carry them out in his own fashion.

                  So dont worry. Snipers are in no way forgotten under my command.
                  In fact, I would love to have a dedicated blackhawk transport squad ferrying sniper teams out to good shooting locations that are otherwise inaccessable to infantry.
                  Also I am more than happy to drop supply crates for snipers that are doing good work and need more ammo :D

                  thanks for the input.
                  -Nyram
                  Sarcasm - It keeps me from killing people.

                  Let me introduce you to the Chain of Command.
                  It is this big damn chain that I beat you with until you understand who is in charge!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                    I was with you in that game Nyram, and the plan did work great. (I also was in the next one when you where my SL) Like trooper said, Snipers can lay a huge part in battles, the Claymore is the most underused weapon in the game, and that is a shame. (Mines come in a close second) I have seen, in SOCOM 2, that well played Mines/Claymores can do wonders. It is diferent in a respawn game, but no less effective. Leaving some enterance "undefended" while placing a number of claymores can devistate an infantry attack in tight spaces and, most importantly, let you know they are coming that way.

                    A note on team work and squads, tonight in Karkand i was with a squad that was incharge of hold the river. We all knew our jobs and had a SL you would tell us when we needed to switch Kits, and it worked very well. So having a squad with a job (ie defending, attacking, air etc) with people who know how to do that job is, in away, more effective then having pre assigned Kits. I think it can be better if someone knows how to hold the river, and maybe switches between AT/SNiper (as i did) then have someone "stuck" as assult when the situation does not need that.

                    Ramblings of a very tired man.

                    Zarku

                    Sniper/Spec Ops/Pilot

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                      Wulfyn, I agree it's very tough to do in practice. I think we need to start at the squad level. Maybe we should design our squads (offline, here) to compliment one another in-game rather than try to make single squads that try do everything...
                      I think this is a good idea - look at the success of the C-barrack thread. I guess the difficulty is always going to be that you don't know who you are going to be on with. We could make squads that work well together, but we might go a whole week without being on at the same time.

                      But I don't think that should stop us from trying!! :)


                      I'm always looking to co-ordinate better with other squads, but the lack of SL-SL comms means it is always going to be on the word of the CO that this gets done. I do always look at the other SL on my side tho - you can really start to build up a picture of their playing styles in the game, and recognise their preferences from what they have posted in here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                        Originally posted by Wulfyn
                        I think this is a good idea - look at the success of the C-barrack thread. I guess the difficulty is always going to be that you don't know who you are going to be on with. We could make squads that work well together, but we might go a whole week without being on at the same time.

                        But I don't think that should stop us from trying!! :)
                        It is the C-Team Barrack, not C-Barrack :)

                        Folks please feel free to use whatever you want from our barrack as template to build upon.

                        The only reason we are not doing our squad management behind passworded team pages is to help community to organize better and learn from our experience ...

                        Dont take my comments the wrong way, these are not egocentric statements or squad advertisement. I have a lot to learn from you guys and a few to teach...

                        One thing is for sure. You CANNOT organize your team during the game. You need a place to do it. Your squad needs dedicated players. When you have enough number of them, you will be always playing with guys who know each other and squad SOP
                        Last edited by John CANavar; 07-21-2005, 12:59 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                          Originally posted by Wulfyn
                          but the lack of SL-SL comms means it is always going to be on the word of the CO that this gets done
                          NO it doesnt have to be ! We are working on a comm. relay system (designed by Strag) which will make SL-SL communication possible and easy...

                          using this system, We hope to see something like this in near future of TG;

                          SL1 Relay: Squad 2, this is squad 1, we are in position, over
                          SL2 Relay: rgr that squad 1, initiate the attack and we will backup from north, over

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                            One thing is for sure. You CANNOT organize your team during the game. You need a place to do it. Your squad needs dedicated players. When you have enough number of them, you will be always playing with guys who know each other and squad SOP
                            It can be done in game. I do it every time I am SL. I don't think you do need dedicated squads either. I get a few people who I regularly play with, and a lot of people I haven't before. But they all work together, and if I ask people to change kits / roles then they do. A problem with a dedicated squad where each person knows what they are doing is making sure everyone is on at the right time, and adapting to the changing situations the battlefield creates.


                            Looking forward to the SL-SL comms, but until it is out I really can only go from experience. I'll alter my statement when SL-SL is possible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Dedicated Roles and Squads

                              Originally posted by Wulfyn
                              It can be done in game. I do it every time I am SL.
                              I guess we are talking about different levels of organization...

                              The thing I am trying to achieve (I am still at the beginning) cannot be done during game and cannot be done with new players...

                              It is still early to talk but things are promising.

                              Comment

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