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I [heart] Karkland

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  • I [heart] Karkland

    This is a Karkland tribute thread. Let's talk Karkland strategy!

    defense tip:
    everyone on D should spawn up front! I dont care if there's a tank back there, mine the roads, choke the wings, kill them all. Game over. In theory, if they dont get a single person past that first FLAG then the MEC win. And you dont need a tank on the frontline to completely choke Southern entry into the city! Maybe send a squadie back to get that tank AFTER a sound frontline has been established. I see MEC squads (noobs) spawn as deep as the bridge/mainbase!!! This move usually results in losing the Southern Bottleneck and thus losing the round. It is very possible to both lockdown the Southern Bottleneck *and* do it with nothing more than infantry (need: mines, C4, and WingCover)!!!

    WingCover, immediately guard the wings: Western Hills and Eastern Wall/Traintracks.

  • #2
    Re: I [heart] Karkland

    Now with wings to prevent messy leakage!

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    • #3
      Re: I [heart] Karkland

      The problem with leaving absolutely no one to cover the east side of the river is that it only takes 1 vehicle to get through, and it's over. In the confusion of the mass combat, it's relatively easy to sneak a humvee through the lines. Hell, I've busted through the line with a slow-moving APC.

      On MEC, I usually get my squad to grab all the vehicles from the main base and spread out across the river. Our one squad could easily hold off light/moderate assaults, which is generally what you get while the main battle rages to the west. That also freed up lots of troops to operate across the river.
      [squadl]
      "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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      • #4
        Re: I [heart] Karkland

        It's good to approach Karkland (Monte Casino) with the notion that if the Offense breaks the chokepoint then the MEC (Italians) have already lost. This is especially true if the Offense has the skill/leadership/teamwork advantage.

        So the entire battle is the chokepoint. You may want a SpecOps CO to C4 the mainbase bridge. but spawning an entire squad in the mainbase makes it all the easier to break through the chokepoint in the first place. And yes, I've been a part of several Karkland defensives where the chokepoint went unbroken, and it took every body we had to cover all 3 angles of attack: wings(2), roads, and alleys. It only takes 4 engineers to lock down the roads.

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        • #5
          Re: I [heart] Karkland

          I disagree. One squad needs to stay back and cover the river crossing and bridge. With 64 players, I would dedicate 2 squad to that job.. 1 to the river and east side, and one to the bridge. That would still allow 19 others to spawn at the forward flag, which is more than enough to defend the position.

          I agree though that Karkand is one of the best maps there.

          3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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          • #6
            Re: I [heart] Karkland

            Originally posted by Tempus
            I disagree. One squad needs to stay back and cover the river crossing and bridge. With 64 players, I would dedicate 2 squad to that job.. 1 to the river and east side, and one to the bridge. That would still allow 19 others to spawn at the forward flag, which is more than enough to defend the position.

            I agree though that Karkand is one of the best maps there.
            I was commanding one game on Karkand and I had one squad consist of a sniper, support, and engineer. With the bridge destroyed (by another squad) this squad would place claymores and land mines at all the ramps so no apcs/tanks could cross the water. If a mine/claymore blows up...they go place another one

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            • #7
              Re: I [heart] Karkland

              How about cascading the "extra" squads further up the line away from the main chokepoint? This way they can create a secondary chokepoint *and* assist with the main chokepoint if needed. It also helps if SL's set up wide formations, I usually want a member on each N/S street: mining, scouting, pwning.

              Going into Karkland expecting the Offense to break through the main/secondary chokepoint seems counter-productive.

              Dont forget how much stress you put on the Offense by locking them down. Offensive morale instantly spikes once *any* single flag is captured, mainbase be damned. That Western foothills base is usually the easiest to cap and perhaps the most damaging since there are several flags nearby and defensive moral is lowered in the confusion. This supports my cascading Chokepoint theory.

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              • #8
                Re: I [heart] Karkland

                Originally posted by walrus
                Going into Karkland expecting the Offense to break through the main/secondary chokepoint seems counter-productive.
                I would argue that it puts you at a grave disadvantage to think that any one line can hold indefinitely. Must have backups/reserves.
                [squadl]
                "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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                • #9
                  Re: I [heart] Karkland

                  I tried walrus' tactic. If u think about it and imagine it it might seem like it is gonna work. But when I actually tried it the line always break. and a squad breaks through and goes for a back flag.

                  So The bridge area have to be defended. Try it walrus and bring it out of the theory.

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                  • #10
                    Re: I [heart] Karkland

                    I posted this before and this was my general idea. My whole point was to defend the east you can modify it the way you want but if you dont defend the east I dont think you will ever win.

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                    • #11
                      Re: I [heart] Karkland

                      The defense line was France's strategy for WWII, with the "Ligne Maginot" blocking France's NE... Germans did the unthinkable and marched through neutral countries to pass it. Then later the Germans set up a defense line on the Atlantic, expecting the Americans... but as you know this defense line was broken.

                      So defense lines are good, but they'll either be passed by or broken through. I think for Karkand it is a good strategy to have a nicely spread out defense line, because it does constrain USMC to a small area of the map, and thus arty strikes rack up lots of kills & drain morale.

                      But you need some men behind, to clean up enemies that pass / break through.

                      My 2 cents

                      Cheers
                      ABPositive

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I [heart] Karkland

                        to be honest, when I saw Turbo's map/schema I almost powered down my workstation and quit my job to go home and play Karkland!

                        as for the R/L defensive-line reference. ROFL. there's no artificial "kill you dead" boundaries in R/L so lets all leave WWII out of this discussion. Whew.

                        And since the "design" of this map dictates a very specific *and* narrow main chokepoint using these artificial boundaries I almost see both E and W boundaries as two extra squads the D has as a gimme. Based on the design, two impossibly "equal" teams (equal in all ways, mirrored if you will) will find this map imbalanced. That is, the best team at clogging that main chokepoint and understanding the possibility/need of a secondary chokepoint will defeat the best team known worldwide for cracking the frontline. The Defensive advantage in the first 10 minutes of this map cannot be argued.

                        Besides, I've seen a fallen Mainbase recaptured by the MEC on this map just as frequently as I've seen the frontline breached... both events due to poor defense.

                        I have not seen the USMC win if they dont break that frontline. hmmm.

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                        • #13
                          Re: I [heart] Karkland

                          Every time I get to Karkand I try to command if there isn't a commander already on, it's simply the sweetest map EVER. As I'm usually with USMC, I'm not too keen on the MEC strategies. Usually my USMC strategy is to send one large squad to capture bases to the East, and one large to the West. All other squads, go face-first into them at the center.

                          After the first 10 minutes' mess is over, my priority is to push them all to the East side and not let anyone cross the river. Every once in a while I'll send a squad with an APC or 2 down the South side to take over the easternmost base, which is usually left unattended. The USMC has the cover of the trains against artillery, and they can spread out more. The MEC basically have to defend the land bridge and the main bridge, so they're all bunched up at the other side in two positions, perfect target for artillery. 8)

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                          • #14
                            Re: I [heart] Karkland

                            Originally posted by walrus
                            as for the R/L defensive-line reference. ROFL. there's no artificial "kill you dead" boundaries in R/L so lets all leave WWII out of this discussion. Whew.
                            I think the reference was more important for the D-Day example. Germany had a line that should not have been able to be broken by direct assault, yet it was. Gotta have backups.
                            [squadl]
                            "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I [heart] Karkland

                              good point, Tarpan. But the Allies had several advantages of their own during D-Day... UMSC, on Karkland, have no advantage whatsoever save a possible poor defensive frontline!

                              but I agree it may finally be a pointless arguement--karkland strategy that is.

                              I think we can agree on one thing: *if* the frontline holds, for whatever reason, MEC will win everytime.

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