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Common Sense at the start of a map

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  • Common Sense at the start of a map

    I've seen this time and time again - a team will ignore the key points that we all seem to know by now on certain maps, waiting for someone to go CO, and then for the CO to organize his plan and tell everyone what to do. Two glaring examples of this are on some of the favorites maps here - Karkand and Sharqi Peninsula.

    What are the keys that are ALWAYS the focal point of the attackers on these maps? That's right, the main bases of the defending team which are NOT UCB's - which contain all their assets. Sure enough, at least a few squads if not the entire team will be trying to head to the Sharqi TV tower or heading across the Karkand river ASAP. What do we often see in response to it early in the game? One squad trying to guard the TV tower on Peninsula, a squad guarding the bridge on Karkand and maybe a squad guarding the land bridge.

    What happens all too often is these meager defenses are swarmed by an organized enemy, and we all have seen what happens when you spend most of the game trying to recap your main base to get some arty raining down on the OTHER guy for a change, to get the ONLY armor the defending team has access to since we can't raid a UCB and to have a UAV to know what's going on. You end up dying and frustrated more often than not.

    Now - if you have a CO at the start and he says to do something, do it - I'm not disputing that. Although on that note I'd really like to see the CO's that will gladly send 4 squads repeatedly to retake the TV tower (or try a suicidal bridge crossing) at all costs use more men to defend these when we DO have them to start with. What I'm mainly talking about here is to see common sense in those early minutes when we don't have a CO at the start of the map, or before he's really started to take charge of the situation. Cover your main base HARD when you first spawn to make sure it's not an uphill battle later on. Once it's secure, you can move out and recap the outer CP's that have been lost - WITH the full support of arty, UAV and scans when you get a CO.

    It's odd - on the offensive side, it seems like all the SL's have a clue where to go - at least one or two will be heading for these key points without having a CO, going for an early knockout. On defense, though, it seems everyone scatters across the map, not worrying about the key positions until they've been taken.

    Having everyone spawn at the main base would be a bit of overkill, true, but isn't as bad as not having enough men there to defend. If there are 5 full squads I'd like to see 2 on main base defense on Sharqi covering the front and back of the tower, and on Karkand I'd want one at the bridge flag, one at the land bridge crossing and one at the main base itself to deal with anyone that breaks through. AFTER the first few minutes when people have disconnected, switched squads, and done their diving from the SL spot and everyone is a bit more organized and the first assault or two across the river has been repulsed, THEN some of those defensive squads can be used elsewhere after the team seems to have a firm grip on the main base and the assets. Remember as well on these maps there isn't ticket bleed until all the CP's are taken, so holding most of the map doesn't really help that much - holding onto your assets DOES. Defense in depth of course makes it much harder on the attacker if it can be properly organized, but making sure the rear is secure should always be paramount.


    NCman
    BF2 POE2: NC_Tarheel
    Team Fortress 2: |TG| Tarheel

  • #2
    Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

    I agree completely.

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    • #3
      Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

      Definetly agree with you. Tonight the US took the entire east side of karkand and never looked back.

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      • #4
        Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

        Absolutely Lit Up on Karkand because of what you said. We stayed back but it didn't matter. By the time we were organized, we had icky, legato and crew on top of the Factory roof. We couldnt get them down, another enemy squad grabbed the cement factory and the whole enemy force rained down on the east side.

        Sharqi, grabbed the TV tower early as the MEC and rolled through an easy victory tonight. 100% agree with NCman. It would help if we knew what map was next in the rotation (I don't know how and am not smart enough to write down the rotation) or if we could communicate with everyone before the scores flash.

        The advantage with the attacking force on Karkand, Sharqi, Dragon and Kubra is that there is really only one place (up to 3) to spawn and on defense, there are 5-9 bases to spawn at on defense. Very focused offense and very split defense is to be expected due to that.

        Lucky Shot
        Last edited by Lucky Shot; 08-25-2005, 01:26 AM. Reason: insensible post before correction.

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        • #5
          Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

          Originally posted by turbosol16
          Definetly agree with you. Tonight the US took the entire east side of karkand and never looked back.
          this had nothing to do with the start of the map, though. i know, becuase i was in the second squad that swam the river, squad 1, hot on the heels of squad 2. it was a good ten minutes into the game, at that point, more than enough time for strategies to be developed and everyone to be in their selected positions.

          if the US does NOT cross the river when given the chance (it was wide open, in this case), the map will turn into the typical spam-across-the-river-until-someone-runs-out-of-tickets deal.
          [TG]epheneh

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          • #6
            Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

            Check this thread out. http://www.tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=56239 Use the ATC program and make some defensive strategy's up. I made one for Karkand but it needs updated. I would move 2 squads the the northwestern flag and put 3 squads on east coast defense. That map doesn't have a ticket bleed so the team with the most kills wins. You usually get more kills defending then attacking.

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            • #7
              Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

              i agree completely. In sharqi if i start the round as usmc and as CO i immediatly send 2 squads to defend. If they get a lot of resistance i keep both there, if its minimal i keep just 1. If however i become co and my team already lost the TV tower, i dont go in. Its really not worth a trillion tickets to get it, while losing every other base. I actually cant remember one time that the usmc took the tv station back if there was at least one-two half way competent squads. you raise a good point thats its much better to just freakin keep it at the beginning then to lose it.

              Only time i would try to retake the TV station is if the mec are brought out into the city area, thus allowing 1-2 squads to sneak back in and take it.

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              • #8
                Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

                you raise a good point about sneaking in.

                althought it would be hard to execute on a public server (even TG), sometimes the best idea when dealing with a heavily defended point is to just fall back on what you have. let the enemy split up and start to come to you, at which point you can often retake the critical point with at little as one squad. i've seen it happen all the time...people get bored, they don't often stick around to defend what doesn't seem to be in immediate danger.
                [TG]epheneh

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                • #9
                  Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

                  Yeah, people are getting much smarter with respect to attacking those points. Anytime a main base is not a UCB, it should be a prime objective. This includes the opposing home base on Songhua and the MEC base on Kubra. And the Western airstrip on Zatar, although not a base, is a major armor spawn, and should be considered in the same category.

                  On defense, we have seen what can happen if the Sharqi TV Station is properly defended. One night, the MEC CO insisted on attacking over and over again, even though the USMC was dug-in at that CP. The result was a major defeat for the MEC team. I've seen the exact same thing happen on Karkand. The attacking USMC team took every other CP, then pushed to take the final CP, but they were facing an entire team defending.

                  We will see lots more adaptation around these key locations, I think. Especially after the butchering the US team took on Sharqi tonight. Seeya on defense!

                  I've been playing this game way too much. :)
                  Last edited by icky; 08-25-2005, 01:17 AM. Reason: mental block... not Oman!
                  Peace through fear... since 1947!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

                    Originally posted by burble
                    this had nothing to do with the start of the map, though
                    I think it had alot to do with the start of the map. The MEC was mostly on the west side of the map and was not defending the east from the start. I walked across the same river as you did and we ran into one guy at the cement factory. I think all NCman is saying is that when you dont have a CO you have to think about what a CO would want your squad to do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

                      Originally posted by turbosol16
                      I think it had alot to do with the start of the map. The MEC was mostly on the west side of the map and was not defending the east from the start. I walked across the same river as you did and we ran into one guy at the cement factory. I think all NCman is saying is that when you dont have a CO you have to think about what a CO would want your squad to do.
                      Yea... The one guy was me. We had been trying to get the squad off the factory roof (could not do it, props to Legato who sniped me climbing crane ladders and smoke stacks) and spawned there after a UAV spotted you at the flag. Think I picked off 1, maybe 2 of ya and someone hit me from the side.

                      Lucky Shot

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                      • #12
                        Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

                        yeah, i really had some intense games today. on the peninsula round before the servers went PW, we as the MEC just dominated. at one time i took a USMC noob tube and literally wiped out a squad in the stairwells. every time the mec holds the tower, they win. they can take down assets, they have armor respawn and they have complete gunship monopoly. just fyi. the USMC after losing their assets seem to kinda loose all hope. i've never really seen a spec op squad harass the MEC's UAV and scan forcing a dedicated defense squad etc. but yeah.... we had so many bodies piling up!

                        as for karkland on the PW... good GOD that was great stuff. viper and company just did the standard 2 APC column with a fent in the front and cutting straight through the heart.

                        anyway... my GOD did i cut you guys down in that APC towards the end of that one... mad props to viper. he risked life and limb repairing me as i frantically pulled forward and backward dodging AT rounds
                        |TG-Irr|Legato

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                        • #13
                          Re: Common Sense at the start of a map

                          Some of this is probably related to the fact that a Bf2 map typically lasts 45-60min, and the only time for toilet/fridge/stretch breaks is during map changes. Also, map changes will usually see a number of players drop, thereby forcing squads to reform. Sometimes this affects the teams unevenly leading to an opening of, say, 30v16. Last night, with pauses and map restarts, allowed us to actually have a quick break if needed. Props to the admin who did that!

                          I didn't participate in the event last saturday, but I guess you had a system involving teamspeak where the map started when all SLs and COs were ready, plus you had the advantage of pre-game tactics. I don't suggest such a complex structure for ordinary evening games, but an extended freeze time during CO selection on wed/sat nights perhaps would allow for squads to get more organised?

                          -=[dMw]=-Cain

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