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Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

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  • Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

    Most of the people I've played with (or against) are thinking in that "attack, attack, attack" way... some of them did a nice job on defense... still even those guys think of battlefield as a small number of dots with lines connecting them, and of course there's always those two routes for extreme flankers.

    How about making a defence out of CPs?
    Isn't it more logical?
    How about squads and vehicles guarding each other flanks, stopping enemy from flanking (it seams to me, in most cases, you're gonna get flanked, one way or another)?

    Is the FRONTLINE that one promised land we all going for, when all the peaces of a team will come together, or just a dream in the minds of those who have problems facing the reality?

    Let me give you an example...



    What's your opinion?

  • #2
    Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

    The problem with this mainly is too much area to cover, too few people. The above plan looks like it's drawn for the 16 player map, which means you basically have 7 people to cover lots of territory. It would be nigh impossible to set up that line with 64 players.

    On the bigger maps, Karkand is the only map capable of having a true front line. No other maps have true chokepoints, and there's just too much area to move around with too few people to cover it.

    One of the things that I seriously dislike about the game is the lack of chokepoints when it comes to water crossings. Seriously, blowing up a bridge is almost meaningless, as every single bridge on a given map has a shallows area either right next to it or close by. Can't move your tank across the broken bridge? No problem, move 10m north to the shallow area. If there were more actual chokepoints, I think the game would have a better feel to it. This isn't even limited to water- there should be more terrain that infantry and vehicles can't just walk up. Things like this would very likely move combat away from the flags and make things more fun.
    [squadl]
    "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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    • #3
      Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

      Originally posted by SmokingTarpan
      If there were more actual chokepoints, I think the game would have a better feel to it. This isn't even limited to water- there should be more terrain that infantry and vehicles can't just walk up. Things like this would very likely move combat away from the flags and make things more fun.
      good point Tarpan. I would like to see fights on areas other than flags. But I guess it is difficult to balance between freedom/non-linear gameplay and chokepoints.

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      • #4
        Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

        Originally posted by SmokingTarpan
        The problem with this mainly is too much area to cover, too few people. The above plan looks like it's drawn for the 16 player map, which means you basically have 7 people to cover lots of territory. It would be nigh impossible to set up that line with 64 players.

        On the bigger maps, Karkand is the only map capable of having a true front line. No other maps have true chokepoints, and there's just too much area to move around with too few people to cover it.

        One of the things that I seriously dislike about the game is the lack of chokepoints when it comes to water crossings. Seriously, blowing up a bridge is almost meaningless, as every single bridge on a given map has a shallows area either right next to it or close by. Can't move your tank across the broken bridge? No problem, move 10m north to the shallow area. If there were more actual chokepoints, I think the game would have a better feel to it. This isn't even limited to water- there should be more terrain that infantry and vehicles can't just walk up. Things like this would very likely move combat away from the flags and make things more fun.
        the rumored "supply line" game mode can't come quick enough!
        |TG-Irr|Legato

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        • #5
          Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

          Originally posted by John CANavar
          good point Tarpan. I would like to see fights on areas other than flags. But I guess it is difficult to balance between freedom/non-linear gameplay and chokepoints.
          I once tried to put together an ambush squad to defend non-flag areas, but it just didn't work. There are too many flags for the number of players, so you're better off just defending those flags and leave defending the geography between flags to the air support.

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          • #6
            Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

            agree Jepzilla, looks like it works exactly like you described.

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            • #7
              Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

              I've seen a frontline work in certain situations, but the squads have to know their role and defend an area that might not be as defensible as a flag. I asked a squad on Daqing Oilfields to defend an area between the two SW flags, and they did an awesome job.

              But yes, unfortunately, frontlines are mainly useless because of the number of ways around the map. Then again, I think this was a lesson learned from BF1942. I know that there were certain maps that didn't have enough paths to get around, and these maps were massacres. Think of playing the Axis in the Stalingrad map. One way out of the main base, and if you lost flag next to it, it was all over, no matter how many tickets were left.

              As for the water crossings, blowing the bridges is a stalling tactic, that's all. The bridges make it easy to go from flag to flag, and thus the approach can be swift and merciless. Having the tanks and jeeps go around to shallow point means that it takes longer for them to get there, and we usually see them coming (like in the SW base in the Wetlands, if you're MEC). It also means that we don't have to worry about vehicles coming from those directions.
              Let them eat war.
              XFire: billygnosis

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              • #8
                Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                On Kubra Dam the MEC can mount a de facto frontline on the north end of the map by covering the field in front of the two tank bases there and cutting the bridge, but that's more point defense than actual guns-in-the-dirt trench combat. Plus, the number of air assets on Kubra makes it very easy for the marines to drop infantry way behind the line.

                About the closest you'll see to a firing line is the eastern ridge of that center hill on Zatar Wetlands. Medics get a real workout when their squads go up against that.
                In game handle: Steel Scion
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                  What we need is a map with great geography, and 4 flags - 2 for each team, on opposite sides of the map.
                  All the fighting will be in the middle of the map - and without flags to focus our combat actions on, it will be the terrain that will be fought over in an attempt to push to the flag objectives.
                  "You live and learn. Or you don't live long."
                  - Lazarus Long

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                  • #10
                    Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                    Instead of frontlines BF2 is more about zones of control and exerting your zone into an opponents or defending your zone. Or that is how I look at it, a zone can be a landbridge, a CP, a building almost anything with enough value to station your real asset, troops at.

                    Az
                    [age-c1][command]

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                    • #11
                      Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                      SUPPLY LINES would be great... It would make things serious. More fights half-way to the CPs. More maneuvers, more squad tactics, and head-to-head clashes - all in all, excellent mod for sharp-shooters and good squad leaders.
                      I hope they make something like that soon (maybe even doubble supply lines? where you can attack the two neighbour points?)

                      I agree on one thing, there are just not enough players on the maps, to do the right terrain control, good recon and situation awareness... It's not really important, you can choose straight attack toward closest enemy point (I prefer this option), or you can go heavy flanking and capture undefended points at the rear...
                      It's pretty boring to stay all game defending a point far away from everything, just because you know there is one iritating freak (using the gayest class of them all, of course) who will come and will try to take it...

                      I would like to see much more people on the same maps, or smaller maps with the same number of people... and there is just too many vehicles - not enough rifles on the battlefield! Not enough eyes guarding space... in some of the matches you can do s..t with you rifle, cos there is not one person you can kill with it. Everyone is driving planes, choppers, tanks, or at least jeeps and buggies, rushing around like crazy. Hate it!

                      Well, if you ask me, I would really enjoy 64:64 on GoO 32p map, with the same number of vehicles. :)
                      Than we would se some serious frontlines developing, and heavy defense positions. Now then you could tell who's for real.
                      supply lines would do a similar job.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                        Fewer CP's on the same maps would, I believe, make for more interesting games without sacrificing any of the fun. The CP's make it like battle-by-numbers. :)

                        If you really want lines to be drawn on the ground, then remove all fast transportation from the maps (especially air). I'm not sure how fun it would be, but it would at least be different. I am dreaming of a day where such mods can be done quickly and easily, so that we can try them out whenever we like.
                        Peace through fear... since 1947!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                          I've always been curious what it would be like to play a 16 player map with 64 people on Tactical Gamer. I'm sure a frontline would develop. 64 people might be too much though and it could just turn into a slaughter that gets no where. It really depends on which map you play.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                            Originally posted by theoriginalblankman
                            I've always been curious what it would be like to play a 16 player map with 64 people on Tactical Gamer. I'm sure a frontline would develop. 64 people might be too much though and it could just turn into a slaughter that gets no where. It really depends on which map you play.
                            Oh my god i would love that. Has anyone looked at the dalian plant 16 player map? theres cover EVERYWHERE, great places to flank from, and not too much armor. It would be intense squad based action. It would also take more innovative commanding as youd have to take locations that arent neccesarily flags.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Frontline - the key element, or just playing silly?

                              Typically, as you lower the map size without lowering the player count correspondingly, the maps turn into a zerg fest. Imagine a Karkand river battle with no river in between- it just results in a lot of people dying over and over to no real point.
                              [squadl]
                              "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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