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Do away with the chopper squads?

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  • Do away with the chopper squads?

    Why not have a pilot and gunner in a regular squad? I think it would be devastatingly effective to have close air support as a four man team attacks a CP. It would give you an eye in the sky that can communicate directly to the ground troops and take some of the pressure off of the UAV. Most of the time, the chopper squad acts like a lone wolf, hunting for targets of opportunity. Would it be an issue to have only four men on the ground to assault and protect the SL? I think that depends on how effective the chopper is in communicating enemy positions, neutralizing their armour and not taking out their own squad. Now, the pilots that likes the freedom of going where he pleases will of course have issues with this, but I think it is worth a try.

  • #2
    Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

    This happens sometimes already.. For example, on Dalian Plant, when a squad takes that first CP, usually a couple of guys grab the attack chopper and help support the squad.

    But for maps where the attack choppers spawn in a UCB, I think it's better to see them in their own squad, working independently.

    Also, a lot of chatter goes on between the pilot and gunner, and being in a larger squad would interfere with other squad communications.

    3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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    • #3
      Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

      I see pro's and cons. Chopper squads if they are utilized right should be supporting ground troops. They should get called over to support an impending attack, but right now they are all over the map.

      If you put them in as part of the squad, then they only help that squad and while it makes that squad much better, I think the overall effectiveness of the choppers diminishes for the commander.

      Ideally, they should be called from squad to squad to clear an area of big targets and provide cover on the last push for the flag. Squad 4 is ready to assault the temple, chopper is there to clear it out. Once that's done, move over to help squad 5 take the woodshed. Squad versus Squad straight up the defender is most likely to win. Having a responsive chopper squad pushes the attack over the top. I think an attack chopper belonging to just one squad is too limiting as they shouldn't need to wait the 4 or 5 minutes it may take for the rest of the squad to grunt through Dragon to that next flag.

      I am not sure the choppers are being used to their highest efficiency yet either.

      Lucky Shot

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      • #4
        Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

        it really all depends on how effectively the CO is utilizing their specialty squads.

        take jets squads for example, id say only 25% of the time do I get consistant bombing orders from the CO. And i don't just mean provide air support or hit a position, but to take out bridges, or bomb specific armor targets before they close in on a flag

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        • #5
          Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

          Originally posted by Tempus
          Also, a lot of chatter goes on between the pilot and gunner, and being in a larger squad would interfere with other squad communications.
          All other strategic arguments aside, there is no way an effectively communicating grounds squad and an effectively communicating air squad can co-exist. You always end up talking over each other.


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          • #6
            Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

            Originally posted by Shiner
            All other strategic arguments aside, there is no way an effectively communicating grounds squad and an effectively communicating air squad can co-exist. You always end up talking over each other.
            Not necessarily. I ran a squad the other day with an attack helo able to provide fast, quick on demand. I believe there were three of us on the ground.

            Pro: Helo could bring a lot of firepower to bear in a big hurry
            Con: Helo was suceptible to damage from ground fire, and usually had to retreat as fast as it came in.

            Overall, I don't know how effective it was since it was my first time running a squad with air and ground assets. I know it takes me a while to come up with brand-new, effective commands to issue (like how to get maximum effective use of the helo in conjunction with a ground force), and so I tend not to do so good "on-the-spot". But, I keep rolling these things over in my head after a game, and usually come up with a new clever-er way of doing things.

            I know next time, I won't be shy about having a couple squaddies grab an un-used chopper to provide some close air support.

            [drill][medic][conduct][tg-c1][tpf-c1]
            [ma-c2][taw-c1]

            Principles of good Sandbox Etiquette:
            Assume good faith - Be polite, please! - Work toward agreement. - Argue facts, not personalities. - Concede a point when you have no response to it, or admit when you disagree based on intuition or taste. - Be civil. - Be prepared to apologize. In animated discussions, we often say things we later wish we hadn't. Say so. - Forgive and forget. - Recognize your own biases and keep them in check. - Give praise when due.

            Treat others as you would have them treat you

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            • #7
              Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

              As a commander I get frustrated by joint helo and infantry squads. One of the helo's greatest assets is its mobility. If it's jointed to a squad the team loses the rapid response of a helo squad.

              I'm not so sure the onus is on the commander to direct the attack helo. If left to jsut the commander to give air suppor missions in concert with squad attacks or defenses, the timing is often off. It either is there too late to help the squad or achieves its mission before the squad is ready to capitalize on its achievement. SL's are really the only one's in a position to call for it in a timely manner and currently they aren't requesting air support enough.

              Now air mobile infantry squads are another matter...
              Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
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              • #8
                Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

                This is another one that is put down to style I think. I have played well with an attack helo in my squad, and it can really give you that extra dimension you need to complete your objective. However if the CO asks me to relinquish the helo for a dedicated helo squad then that is what I do!


                Had a few games where Cymba will join, we'll grab the helo and he'll support us. Then when the server gets a bit busier or we get a CO, Cymba will hop over to the Helo squad. I don't think we need a cast iron rule, what we have in place (chain of command) already works well enough I feel.

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                • #9
                  Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

                  This is a limitation of the software in this case, that inhibits the use of the choopers in as efficient a manner as possible. Since the VOIP system is rigidly structured the commander cannot put, for instance, the pilot in communcation with the SL. That would be the ultimate solution.

                  While I imagine it woudl annoy pilots, if the commander were to arrange for the pilot to arrive on station early but take up a circular pattern just off the target area and then wait for the SL to announce his preparedness for the CAS, that might be a solution, but it would require a certain amount of learning and coordination.

                  Then again, learnign that kind of close coordination of miltiary assets is something that soldiers train for years to become proficient at and they still muck that up.

                  Look at the the commander and his arty. How many times have I been clipped by my own arty (even on TG servers) when the commander tries to bring it in Danger Close and misjudges or I try to wiggle forward to get a jump on the cleared impact area and find myself just inside the steel blossom of a inbound round? I can't count that high without removing my boots.
                  Kornkob

                  I want to move to Theory. Everything works in Theory.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Do away with the chopper squads?

                    I think if a chopper is just sitting there unused, a squad might as well take it for their own. No point in leaving it sitting there. If a CO comes in and needs the heli for a dedicated squad, then give it up because a heli helping ALL squads is better then a heli helping one squad.

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