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  • Let's talk tactics (Oman)

    I have some more :D











    Last edited by Ol'Smoke; 09-20-2005, 06:38 AM.
    Hear ye, of the dragon, Smoke is his name.
    Solely surviving the fires,
    and sad and angry he became.
    Until his angre became dismay,
    as the elders sent him away.

    Now we can hear his wings, once a year,
    And, his empty cry we fear.
    Sad old Smoke, out there in the rain,
    We can feel your suffering, we can feel your pain.

  • #2
    Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

    Props to you powersmoker for trying to increase the interest in ATC tactics in these forums. Having said that, there is one main issue that I have with one or two of these plans.
    This issue is to do with this idea of putting claymores around a base in defensive positions, and using a sniper as a large part of the team. IMO, claymores are not effective at stopping an enemy from assualting a position, due to the fact that each sniper only has 2, and also due to their small damage radius. The claymore was designed to help a sniper cover his ass, not to help him protect his team. C4 is a far more useful defensive weapon, as it can be placed on walls, vehicles and trees, and can easily destroy an entire squad in one blow.

    Construction Site Defensive:
    2 positions for claymores are marked - therefore, one claymore would be placed on each of these positions. Judging from the map, these positions are also dangerously close to spawn areas, and could prove more of a hazard to one's teammates than to the enemy.

    Having a sniper situated in the building would not be terribly useful. They would only be able to cover that northern hill, would not be able to deal with vehicles, and their only real role would be to provide recon that could be obtained through UAV or scan and spots from the commander. IMO, the sniper would be far more useful as another kit, or simply not placed in that building, due to its obviousness and restrictions on angle of fire.

    For the hotel defensive tactic, my concerns are essentially the same. 2 claymores, large area to mine. Other than that, I really like your ideas and plan to try them out sometime soon. Keep up the good work!

    [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1]
    |TG-2nd|munchkin
    Nec aspera terrent.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

      Tnx, I mainly workout these plans to better understand the environment and take lessons from it for myself.

      I agree on the claymore part on Hotel, I'll change that. Considering the Construction site, I think it's a decent option to use a sniper there. I try to fit in snipers if I see an opportunity because I know a lot of people like to play them.
      Last edited by Ol'Smoke; 09-20-2005, 06:56 AM.
      Hear ye, of the dragon, Smoke is his name.
      Solely surviving the fires,
      and sad and angry he became.
      Until his angre became dismay,
      as the elders sent him away.

      Now we can hear his wings, once a year,
      And, his empty cry we fear.
      Sad old Smoke, out there in the rain,
      We can feel your suffering, we can feel your pain.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

        On the Construction yard what do you think about putting the Support on the building he's under?

        I think he'd be less exposed on the roof. If the enemy team circled around back and attacked from the hills he could pepper people on the flag with grenades and he would be a threat to anyone trying to clear the construction building.

        Originally posted by munchkin
        Props to you powersmoker for trying to increase the interest in ATC tactics in these forums. Having said that, there is one main issue that I have with one or two of these plans.
        This issue is to do with this idea of putting claymores around a base in defensive positions, and using a sniper as a large part of the team. IMO, claymores are not effective at stopping an enemy from assualting a position, due to the fact that each sniper only has 2, and also due to their small damage radius. The claymore was designed to help a sniper cover his ass, not to help him protect his team. C4 is a far more useful defensive weapon, as it can be placed on walls, vehicles and trees, and can easily destroy an entire squad in one blow.

        Construction Site Defensive:
        2 positions for claymores are marked - therefore, one claymore would be placed on each of these positions. Judging from the map, these positions are also dangerously close to spawn areas, and could prove more of a hazard to one's teammates than to the enemy.

        Having a sniper situated in the building would not be terribly useful. They would only be able to cover that northern hill, would not be able to deal with vehicles, and their only real role would be to provide recon that could be obtained through UAV or scan and spots from the commander. IMO, the sniper would be far more useful as another kit, or simply not placed in that building, due to its obviousness and restrictions on angle of fire.
        I have to disagree, a sniper in that building can see everything that's not coming from the left of the picture (right down to the beach flags even). Also Claymores make good alarms which is useful if one group of players are only a distraction for another group that's trying to flank. On top of that in those positions if someone is killed by a Claymore there's a good chance, if not the sniper, someone will get a chance at any Medic attempting a revive. On a side note with a Support a Sniper can place 5 Claymores.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

          Not bad but I think there is room for improvement, imho your assaults are one-dimensional.

          Construction Yard.
          The left side is left open, an enemy soldier or two in the alleyway or roofs could hit your squad from behind as they assault the building. Artillery could help but I would rather send 2 or 3 squad members through there, then they can cover the construction building as the rest of the squad assaults it.

          I like using a SL as a spawn point(another topic), the building in the NW can be a good hiding hole if heavy resistance at the construction site. If enemy presence is light then by all means attack with the squad into the construction building

          Hotel
          I like to use the rail track and NW wall (as looking at the picture) then moving around the hill. This is the highest position near the flag (apart from hotel roof) so provides a good vantage/cover spot.

          River Fort
          Leave a squad member to cover fire from fence.
          Use the river if a boat is available. Attack as you have shown, but try to sneak a boat + two squad members in behind.

          Rock Fort
          You are assaulting across open land where you say “approach”, spotting your squad early and leaving them trapped at the fence.

          I would rather fake an assault with AT + assault bombarding the bunker while rest of the squad assaults from the top right.

          Village Fort
          Use the village to the top left, put AT or assault there, as there is a good line of fire to bombard the bunker position.

          Village
          You have left that building across the river open, it provides good protection for a support or assault soldier to put down cover fire. Rest of attack is good.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

            Originally posted by Preston85
            Construction Yard.
            The left side is left open, an enemy soldier or two in the alleyway or roofs could hit your squad from behind as they assault the building. Artillery could help but I would rather send 2 or 3 squad members through there, then they can cover the construction building as the rest of the squad assaults it.
            A smoke grenade would give that entrance a better chance, it's a dangerous chokepoint.
            Originally posted by Preston85
            Rock Fort
            You are assaulting across open land where you say “approach”, spotting your squad early and leaving them trapped at the fence.
            You will have the same problem if you attack from other sides. I choose this entrance because it is the shortest. Again, smoke will be very helpful.
            Hear ye, of the dragon, Smoke is his name.
            Solely surviving the fires,
            and sad and angry he became.
            Until his angre became dismay,
            as the elders sent him away.

            Now we can hear his wings, once a year,
            And, his empty cry we fear.
            Sad old Smoke, out there in the rain,
            We can feel your suffering, we can feel your pain.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

              I'm a sniper, and I LOVE this map for the long LOS. You miss some key sniper placements for both attack and defend.

              River Fort and Village:

              A sniper on the warehouse can spot and counter both avenues of attack. I spent a whole round on top of there, supporting both teams holding those maps.

              So long as the arty is down, the only real threat you have is an air strike, and even then, you will only get that if the 531st is on the other side.

              On attack on the village, from the hill, you need to make sure a sniper up on the warehouse is neutralized.

              On attack on the village fort, a scout/sniper should go up on top of the warehouse, neutralize any counter-snipers, and set up shop. You can cover 3 of your 5 positions of attack from that spot.

              Construction

              You have a clear view to the hotel, back to the village, and across to the beach from the center construction building, the crane in front of it, and the building across from it. Not having a sniper team in those positions is criminal.

              On the attack, you need to neutralize the snipers immediately, otherwise, you will not get to the flag. You can cover it easily from uptop.

              Hotel

              On attack, you need to neutralize any snipers prior to the assualt. While under cover, take out any snipers on the roof.

              On defense, you establish a defense within the flag's perimeter....forgetting that the sniper nest on the roof is accessible from a ladder outside the far walls!

              If you don't have a man up there, and claymore the ladder, you will be sorry. I never make an approach directly on that flag. Either I go into the hills, or up the ladder.

              Also, the approach to the flag should be heavily mined at this site.

              Most of the other sites are quite good. I'm a little leery of counting on artillery for an attack, since it might be down, but otherwise, the beachhead assault is good.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                I disagree with your Hotel defense plans. Your terrain provides you with two perimiters:

                The inner perimeter: short wall on raised ground, backed by hills.
                The outer perimeter: high wall, backed by hills.

                Defending that flag from the inner perimeter is hard. There's a fair amount of concealment and cover within the outer perimeter and the wall provides poor cover to defend from. The outer perimeter is excellent cover and provides nice choke points: 2 places for armor to enter, another 3 places for infantry to enter plus the hillside. Also, not having anybody on that rooftop is a mistake: it's just asking for a chopper to come in and drop a squad off up there. Plus, it's the best place to attack incoming armor from. I like to have at least an AT guy + supply crate up there. A sniper is also helpful to keep the hillside clear of marksmen, spot incoming threats and to defend the ladder (claymore).

                If your squad has the tank that spawns there have a guy go engineer and mine the gap under the building. Keep the tank near the hotel/swimming pool and use it primarily as anti-infantry weapon - the AT guy on the roof can attack incoming armor in safety (they can't fire up on his position); tank driver is a medic and the engineer rides the .50 cal when not repairing. Other two squaddies are assault and get to patrol the ground on the northeast hill.

                If your squad doesn't have the tank, you keep a second AT guy in the bushes/trees near the flag. The rest is 3 assaults or 2 assaults + medic. The sniper's spotting is important here so the assaults have time to get into position since they don't have much chance of holding off an entire squad without warning. Infantry almost never attack through the large gaps in the wall, prefering to go through the hole or around the back. This provides ample opportunity for 1 or 2 guys to engage while another flanks around for a n00b-tubing. :D

                EDIT: I'd also like to add that the River Fort is deceptive; it is a very easy flag to defend. The most successful attacks I've had involve the squad sneaking around to the west/northwest along the river.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                  @Mateo:
                  Not many know it, but this game is all about snipers. Once you gain sniper-superiority the game is basically over.

                  :D

                  Hotel.
                  I would prefer to place the sniper on the northern hill. That way a squad approaching from the south (pool) will move directly towards him, making it easy for a sniper to pick them off.
                  I think having an AT on the rooftop isn't really neccassary as long as you place mines correctly.
                  If a squad moves on top of the hotel, just order some artillery. Approaching from the rooftop is not a good approachroute IMO. If you lie down under some bushes you're practically invisable and you can pick them off easily.
                  Hear ye, of the dragon, Smoke is his name.
                  Solely surviving the fires,
                  and sad and angry he became.
                  Until his angre became dismay,
                  as the elders sent him away.

                  Now we can hear his wings, once a year,
                  And, his empty cry we fear.
                  Sad old Smoke, out there in the rain,
                  We can feel your suffering, we can feel your pain.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                    Originally posted by powersmoker
                    @Mateo:
                    Not many know it, but this game is all about snipers. Once you gain sniper-superiority the game is basically over.

                    :D
                    You are only being sarcastic because I'm right! ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                      Originally posted by powersmoker
                      @Mateo:
                      Not many know it, but this game is all about snipers. Once you gain sniper-superiority the game is basically over.

                      :D
                      Nah, air superiority is more important. If the MEC gains air superiority quickly enough then the game is over for the USMC. If the MEC can operate their armor without opposition from the air or other armor then those beach flags will drop. If USMC loses those flags without capping any of the back flags the game is over.Restablishing a beech-head is almost impossible against good air + helo squads. It's the USMC's biggest weakness on Oman and Dalian.

                      Oman is a decent sniper map though.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                        My tactics for maps with air support are pretty much on the fly. I can't even begin to count the number of times that my entire squad has been wiped out by that #$%#@$ Steel_penguin in his SU-34 :D I've gotten it both on attack and defense. It's really hard to plan against air attacks from jets and helos, but you can plan against armor.

                        Props to you powersmoker for bringing these topics up, but on maps like this I just pull a plan out of my rear as we're told to go there by the CO ;) The attack plan usually involves some speech like "...and watch out for the bomber and MI-28" :D

                        I would definitely say that the key to defense on a map like Oman is to keep your men spread out around the perimeter to avoid the destruction from the bomber. Your mines are useless once your engineer becomes a crater, along with your C4 that your spec ops guy laid down. The only person who usually survives these messes is the sniper, because he's smart enough to stay the hell away from the rest of the squad :D

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                          If your bombed like crazy, it's smart to hold bases with some cover:
                          Construction yard, Hotel, River fort, Village, Rock fort.
                          Hear ye, of the dragon, Smoke is his name.
                          Solely surviving the fires,
                          and sad and angry he became.
                          Until his angre became dismay,
                          as the elders sent him away.

                          Now we can hear his wings, once a year,
                          And, his empty cry we fear.
                          Sad old Smoke, out there in the rain,
                          We can feel your suffering, we can feel your pain.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                            Sniper superiority? :/
                            And by the way powersmoker, when you say sniper do you refer to a player with the sniper kit? Or a sharpshooter with an assault rifle?

                            [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1]
                            |TG-2nd|munchkin
                            Nec aspera terrent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Let's talk tactics (Oman)

                              Some observations about the river fort attack/defense.

                              The river is the only way to approach this place undetected, but everyone knows that and everyone knows where to lob grenades as soon as an attack begins. Approaching from the north is a definite no-no in my book, far too much open terrain. The only cover available is the lip of the ridge and the fence (which provides very little protection). You have to cross about 100 meters of empty sand and everything in the base as a protected firing position to stop you from.

                              Attacking from the south is the way to go here. The grass and rocks provide at least partial cover. A transport helo insertion here has the advantage of cutting this base off from the artillery and possibly allows another squad to assault the artillery at the same time.

                              Approaching from the south you have easy access to the armor spawn and the half destroyed building is the only entrenched position the defenders can fire at you from. It should also be possible for a two man fireteam to us the low ground along the river to move around the west beneath the boat house to the small wall just north of it. From there you have clear sight of the flag, the main building (which is where an SL will usually be hiding and the perfect target for grenade launchers) and the hole in the eastern fence.

                              Don't have ATC at work but I might mock this up this evening sometime.
                              --

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