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  • Questionable tactics?

    The SL spawn point feature of this game adds some real tactical depth if used right. Even on TG servers I don't seem to ever see squads taking advantage of its power and am starting to wonder if it's because of a TG restriction I am unaware of.

    as an example:

    I've done this a few times on zatar wetlands:

    Map start, tell my squad to NOT spawn. Grab a jet on the carrier and fly straight to the center flag and bail. Everyone spawns on me and we quickly set up defense.

    This could be frowned upon because i'm not in a jet squad and 'stealing' an air asset. Obviously I'm only in it for a few seconds and it spawns right back for the air squad to use.

    You can't argue against the tactical advantage of me using that jet to get an entire squad to that extremely important flag in a few seconds vs the air squad having an extra jet in the air for the first 30 seconds of map.

    That example is extreme but here is one that is probably more legitimate and the reason I posted this:

    I've been thinking of a powerful strategy for the new wake island map. As a CO, order all squad leaders to order their members to NOT spawn at the beginning of the round. Exempting air squads. Now have every infantry squad leader load up in the blackhawk and fly as sneakily as possible to the chinese airfield. Order the air squads to attack the enemy jets and AA sites to give the blackhawk a chance. All squad leaders bail out of the blackhawk and everyone spawns, capturing the airfield and crippling the chinese early.

    Is this not a good strategy (yes I know the blackhawk would have a tough time making it back there)? Is it valid?



    I've heard of other clans even using this:
    Have one guy as a squad leader fly the blackhawk straight up to the flight ceiling at the beginning of a map. Then fly over a critical flag. Now have the remaining team members join his squad, spawn on him, jump out of his blackhawk, and leave the squad. Leaving the squad allows another member to join the squad and spawn, doing the same thing. So the entire team is instantly transported to any spot on the map they want. If they die, rejoin that guys squad and repeat. The blackhawk is too high to be shotdown easily, and you have a huge paradrop right onto any enemy flag.

    You can see the power of these tactics and if you let your mind wander you can envision even more. TG takes advantage of the spawn point feature of SL's but I don't think we take it to its logical extent.

    discuss...

  • #2
    Re: Questionable tactics?

    I don't think it is a good idea to use a jet just to get to a place fast then bail. What I have done is asked the squad not to spawn until I am in a transport chopper so I don't have to wait for people trying to get in, everyone usually spawns before the chopper ever gets in the air. I don't think we should be wasting assets just to get to a place quickly.

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    • #3
      Re: Questionable tactics?

      I personally am not a big fan of either of those tactics and here's my reasoning. For example on Zatar that fighter jet is made for two people so to "spawn" an entire squad after using that jet for quicker transport to a flag to me seems more "unrealistic" than unfair and its not something i would do since im not a win at all costs kind of BF2 player (not saying you are).

      I will however tell the 6th squad member who cant fit in my APC to wait till i get where we are going then spawn on me because i thinks its stupid not to be able to fit an entire squad in any one ground vehicle. I will also have "left behind" squad members spawn on me if some jerks fill up my vehicle from another squad to hitch a ride.

      As for the Halo jumping and having everyone spawn off one guy and switching squads so you can move your whole team to a particular point...that falls in the same realm as exploiting the game's mechanics to me. Now i'm no authority on what is and isnt a legitimate tactic but to me it falls outside the bounds of something i personally would employ and would call completely fair.
      Long Live the 2nd BCT and 1st MIP

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Questionable tactics?

        yah you shouldnt use assets when you are not in the Jet squad...and how does that add to the realism and tatics of the game?
        that sounds like a good idea trooper.
        -Vulcan

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Questionable tactics?

          Originally posted by Turbo
          I don't think it is a good idea to use a jet just to get to a place fast then bail. What I have done is asked the squad not to spawn until I am in a transport chopper so I don't have to wait for people trying to get in, everyone usually spawns before the chopper ever gets in the air. I don't think we should be wasting assets just to get to a place quickly.
          Your last sentence, I think, is wrong. Your actually not wasting assets. Your using map assets MORE effectively.

          You could even go farther, have another SL load up in the other jet and fly straight towards the first flag out of the MEC UCB. SLow them down as much as possible right there. Now you hold their first flag and the center, the transport chopper that will come out of their UCB can be stopped by the center flag defenders.

          Now you've completely stalled their attack, and have a huge momentum advantage in the first minute of the game.


          I understand TG isn't "win at all costs" but, instead about fun. Well winning is fun for me, out thinking the other team is fun for me.

          Just playing devil's advocate though, more thoughts?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Questionable tactics?

            Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR]
            yah you shouldnt use assets when you are not in the Jet squad...and how does that add to the realism and tatics of the game?
            How does it add to the tactics? Not sure what you mean.

            and realism? Well bf2 is not a realistic game....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Questionable tactics?

              This is not how the game is meant to be played here at TG. Sure, the spawn point is a powerful thing, but that isn't the way you should be using it here. You have to remember, we try to make this as "realistic" as possible while still maintaining the fun factor...this definitely falls outside of the "realism" factor. Using a plane as transport is one thing, but using it to move an entire squad seems like a pretty cheesy tactic.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Questionable tactics?

                It's probably questionable around here but that's something for the Gentleman's contract. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it unless you are ordered not to do it. It's not unfair because both sides can use this tactic and it's not going to ensure a win. I don't see it as a waste of resources since it does respawn again. Essentially, it's an alternate use of air assets.

                A lot of people think TG is about realism but I like to think differently. I play here because it's about fair game play. Battlefield is far from realistic and it isn't the focus of the game. It's about playing tactically and that may involve real world tactics. It's a game, not a simulation like Operation Flashpoint.

                - It's who you game with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Questionable tactics?

                  okay you get two non-jet squad SL's to take the only two jets on the map...you fly out and drop them spawn and set up defences....mean while the jet squad has to wait and wait. the other team has all their jets in the air bombing you and killing your out in front squad....if the Jet squad had jets they could protect and help you......why not do the same thing with a buggy or vodnic.....



                  The SL spawn point feature of this game adds some real tactical depth if used right
                  i was refering to what you said.
                  that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                  -Vulcan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Questionable tactics?

                    If you think tactically about the use of transport assets, it's a trade-off. Does the team get an important flag capped quickly instead of getting air superiority? Of course there can be a compromise by using a land vehicle but that's a mixture of tactics. Remember, there isn't a rule against using air assets outside of an "air squad". It just comes down to whether the commander has explicitly ordered particular use of assets.

                    - It's who you game with.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Questionable tactics?

                      Originally posted by Bommando
                      I like battles to be as realistic as possible within the realms of playability.

                      Ditching an aircraft for the sole purpose of getting to a waypoint does not fall into that thinking for me. Certainly not against the rules, but I would hate to have to account for these tactics as a CO. I prefer the kind of games we have now.
                      I guess the real point of this thread was to get a slightly better understanding of the TG community. I fall more on the side that Sarc sits on. But the majority of the responses so far have been in support of bommando's point of view.

                      Many TGers equate realism with more fun. And thats perfectly fine.

                      Myself, when it comes to videogames, my competitive nature wants me to find the best ways to win. In battlefield, to win, you have to have a coordinated, disciplined team, TG fills that role perfectly. But for something like quake 3, the team aspect is non-existant and not helpful.

                      I'm still somewhat miffed by the moral majority pushing realism as the 'tactical rulebook' though. Isn't realism, or the lackthereof, defined by the game you are playing? Do you not do certain things in world of warcraft (a game TG plays) because "well that wouldn't be realistic!" Of course not, thats rediculous. I apply the same rule to battlefield 2. Yes the game is MODELED to be more realistic, but its still a far cry from it, why try to do the developers job and change the way a game was meant to be played?

                      Please don't think I'm rebelling against TG or the way we play, I'm hoping to get a good discussion out of this thread and maybe get a feel for specific members' ideas on this subject.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Questionable tactics?

                        Originally posted by =Sarc=
                        If you think tactically about the use of transport assets, it's a trade-off. Does the team get an important flag capped quickly instead of getting air superiority? Of course there can be a compromise by using a land vehicle but that's a mixture of tactics. Remember, there isn't a rule against using air assets outside of an "air squad". It just comes down to whether the commander has explicitly ordered particular use of assets.
                        I think we can agree, unless a CO says otherwise, that a CO want's the air assets in the hands of those players and squads that can use them effectively.

                        If I'm CO, and StrikeFear's team is standing on the tarmac waiting for the jets to respawn because someone decided to quick cap a flag using the jets, then something is wrong. The short term goal of capping a flag in the initial land grab is outweighed by the need to have some control over the airspace above your units capping the flags for the rest of the round.

                        I'm going to be calling out the squad that did it, and probably asking for an admins help in dealing with it on Teamspeak.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Questionable tactics?

                          Originally posted by TG_Mateo
                          I think we can agree, unless a CO says otherwise, that a CO want's the air assets in the hands of those players and squads that can use them effectively.

                          If I'm CO, and StrikeFear's team is standing on the tarmac waiting for the jets to respawn because someone decided to quick cap a flag using the jets, then something is wrong. The short term goal of capping a flag in the initial land grab is outweighed by the need to have some control over the airspace above your units capping the flags for the rest of the round.

                          I'm going to be calling out the squad that did it, and probably asking for an admins help in dealing with it on Teamspeak.
                          Well I can tell you as a CO, that in my frame of mind the tactical advantage of owning important flags early to set up the win is much, much, higher than not having air superiority during the first 45 seconds of the round. Sure you may get bombed a few times... but cmon...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Questionable tactics?

                            Tactical Gamer Primer (required reading for everyone!)

                            Originally posted by Primer
                            3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing superior real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging advantages provided to players by the design of the game engine.
                            |TG-12th| asch
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Re: Questionable tactics?

                              i knew i read that...i just couldnt find it.....thx asch
                              that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                              -Vulcan

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