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Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

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  • Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

    Been thinking about why Kubra seems to frustrate so many people - I think it has to do with the fact that it often turns into a whack-a-mole map, like Dragon Valley, but it is harder to navigate on foot and has more opportunities for ambush. The advantage of the tough terrain, however, makes it easier to form a tight defense, IMO.

    Anyway, I was tooling around with ATC and came up with this opening MEC strategy:


    The idea is to bottle up the USMC at the bridge while limiting their ability to drop a blackhawk squad behind the dam. Teams 1-3 coordinate at the bridge, while team 4 plays rolling defense. Team 6 works as a flying armor company (pulling armor the airfield, dam, and power station) to support 1-3 or 4 as needed.

    The MEC defense usually falls apart when the USMC can get armor or infantry under the bridge to those northern flags or successfully drops forces on the dam or airfield. Most of the time it's easier to steal MEC armor than try to bring up their own. The point of this tactic is to keep them in a stalemate at the bridge for as long as possible to prevent that.

    Also sketched out an assault pattern for hitting the bridge base, if the commander would be so inclined:


    The disadvantage of such a narrow defense is vulnerability to enemy artillery, so you would probably need a spec ops team to blind the enemy commander ASAP.

    I can see a few ways around this defense, but I wanted to get people's opinions on this setup.
    In game handle: Steel Scion
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  • #2
    Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

    I like the idea and the thought. Playing US, generally my first instinct is that ANY flag will stop the bleed. So either get a quick flag, or get a flag worth owning. I will be through the area under the bridge with a buggy before you can get any mines or armor there, or overhead flying by the outside edges in a chopper.

    In the US Buggy, I will capture the Middle Dam on the way to me setting up spawn points at the MEC Main.

    As a US chopper, my squad would eventually hop out near the Main and lay siege on that flag.

    I would agree that you will get the bridge base, but you will lose your main. If an assault does not work on the Main, then the next time around it's time to capture a Dam flag to stop the bleed. Capturing a flag deep creates a second front, creates pressure on the northernmost defenders to collapse back into the map and allows the roadblock to open. Ultimately, it's about all about owning the flags worth owning. You have to give the US a flag near the front so that they will want to spawn there. I hate prevent defenses but that's what you have to do. You almost have to force the opposition into the northeastern most bases. Against most, it would force US squads to spawn at unprotected bases where they are subject to bombing, choppers and arty before they can really get a lot of momentum.

    Flags worth owning...

    1) The Main as you will lose your assets and airfield. Defend with more than one split squad.

    2) Lower Dam, You get a chopper there and an armor. It is a main staging area against the main, but hold a line of defense here. (put two bazookas in the Pipe along the middle of the dam)

    2.5) Dam flanks, Spawns an armor, but more importantly, creates a solid line of defense to keep ground vehicles from getting to the main.

    3) It's worth quite a bit as it's defensible and spawns 2 armor.

    4) Flags worth letting the opposition have, but make them pay to take it and make them pay to own it.

    It's a matter of time before the US gets a flag. Force them to play in a linear fashion. Don't allow them to zip in behind. This map is never commanded at the beginning so most stealth moves will work in the beginning. However, once discovered, the air force on either side will make you pay.



    Lucky Shot

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    • #3
      Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

      Lucky - your modifications look just like the scrim stat we made for that campaign that didn't happen:
      http://www.tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=58788
      It's currently in the Members Only section, but hopefully will be moved out here soon.
      "You live and learn. Or you don't live long."
      - Lazarus Long

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      • #4
        Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

        Its impossible for MEC to bottleneck the USMC, they will get a buggy/helo/column by you. I dont mind Kubra as much as I used to, what it does take it WELL disciplined squads. And of course you need at the least to not let the opposing force gain air superiority.

        az
        [age-c1][command]

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        • #5
          Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

          Originally posted by StrikeFear
          Lucky - your modifications look just like the scrim stat we made for that campaign that didn't happen:
          http://www.tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=58788
          It's currently in the Members Only section, but hopefully will be moved out here soon.
          I have access to it, want to make sure people don't think I used that as a resource. The issue with this map normally is that the MEC loses due to the fact that they have No Commander in place and generally speaking do not try to keep the southernmost points. They try to bottleneck at the front and lose badly and complain that they have no assets and take a beating. Most squads instinctively move to the front. You can't do that because then you lose the most important flags.

          If you have no commander as MEC at the beginning, You Will Lose! If you have less than an average TG chopper/air force You Will Lose! If you lose the main fro more than 5-10 minutes (12% to 25% of the game) You Will Lose!

          I agree with Azreal that it takes discipline to win this map.

          Lucky Shot

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          • #6
            Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

            Ok, I follow you. This plan is a little more fluid and incorporates a sacrifical play to the north. (Can you tell I'm bored at work today? :))



            Squad 3 falls back to the NW flag, assisted by 4 bringing up armor from the dam. 5 assists 2 at the bridge. Either 4 or 5 can split off to defend the lower dam or divert to 1 at the main base to assist there as needed. The idea is to draw the USMC into a killing zone in the central valley. If the northern fight is working well, 2 can move in for a spec ops run with coverage from 3, 4, and 5.

            I don't like putting a lot of resources at the NW flag, however. That's an easy target for bombers and snipers and is usually a frag-fest.
            In game handle: Steel Scion
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            • #7
              Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

              I like the second plan. I really think the Lower Dam is a critical flag. It gives an extra helicopter and the helipad is just brutally effecient, an attack helicopter could repair and keep firing TV guided missiles into the valley. The Lower Dam also has a central TOW which can hit almost anything in the valley and threaten vehicles moving on the Refueling Station from the West. You can also use the tunnel to move armor from the Airfield to the forward bases. It gives you an attack route into the valley that's quicker then the flanks of dam and leaves your vehicles less exposed to enemy aircraft.

              The value of the Construction Site is obvious because it gives a good vantage on vehicles heading towards the Lower Dam and Refueling Station and provides critical mobile AA. I also think the NW flag can be very useful even though it seems that it's only value is to hold it so the USMC isn't on the dam. You could take that tank and use the 50 Cal to help fight off helicopters. You could also use a player in a forward position to spot enemies, the SL could mark them, and the tank would be able to see their location by the marker. In that way you could use it's vantage to turn the tank into mini-artillery and harass advancing troops (you might already be able to see vehicles but being able to target infantry would devestating).

              What I think would be a problem would be the Blackhawk dropping down infantry in the area behind your red line or just North of NW Flag to take the high ground advantage away from your forces. There's not much you can do about that but use your transport to get your infantry to the same places or use your attack aircraft to counter them.

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              • #8
                Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

                Originally posted by Steeler
                Ok, I follow you. This plan is a little more fluid and incorporates a sacrifical play to the north. (Can you tell I'm bored at work today? :))

                Squad 3 falls back to the NW flag, assisted by 4 bringing up armor from the dam. 5 assists 2 at the bridge. Either 4 or 5 can split off to defend the lower dam or divert to 1 at the main base to assist there as needed. The idea is to draw the USMC into a killing zone in the central valley. If the northern fight is working well, 2 can move in for a spec ops run with coverage from 3, 4, and 5.

                I don't like putting a lot of resources at the NW flag, however. That's an easy target for bombers and snipers and is usually a frag-fest.
                I think you got it man! Just make sure you pull the armor back with you as you retreat. Guard it, and leave them nothing. Put men in the .50 cals and engies on top of the tanks. Forcing them to make that march in the open will make them bleed tickets. Nicely done man!

                Lucky Shot

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                • #9
                  Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

                  Kubra came up so I made an attempt at COing. I ended up on the USMC team and used the second plan (I posted an AAR) in reverse (captured the Dam/Airfield and defended). It was pretty effective and I think it'll work, here are my thoughts:

                  The Refueling station was difficult to hold. Recapturing it was even harder. Eventually the squad I sent to retake it found it more cost effective to sit on the hill above the flag and inflict attrition. I think if you loose that flag the best course of action is to make it part of your kill zone. In a best case scenario you could cause so much attrition that they're forced to abandon it.

                  The MEC seemed to be cooming through the tunnel of the lower dam fairly often. Even without aircraft they managed to attack the airfield so the Dam didn't make an effective wall. You'd need to plug that hole with a tank or C4 for to get a true wall. I didn't make an effective defense of that hole so the Airfield became another flag on the frontline.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Thoughts on Kubra Dam Tactics

                    Originally posted by Arf
                    The Refueling station was difficult to hold. Recapturing it was even harder. Eventually the squad I sent to retake it found it more cost effective to sit on the hill above the flag and inflict attrition. I think if you loose that flag the best course of action is to make it part of your kill zone. In a best case scenario you could cause so much attrition that they're forced to abandon it.
                    Having been on the giving and receiving end of enemy fire at that flag, that makes a lot of sense. I remember a round on a public server as MEC when I set up shop alone on the ridge just southeast of the refueling station. The USMC kept running up the hill and I'd 'nade launch them in the back 2 or 3 at a time. The CO even gave me a supply drop so I could reload. Kept that up for about 6 minutes before an APC spotted me. It is no fun to spawn there when the enemy is hiding in the hills or behind the storage crates.
                    In game handle: Steel Scion
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