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  • Fluid Defense

    Over the last few days, we've heard a lot about our loss in the scrim against MA, and many have tried to pin it down to a reason. Essentially, it has been concluded that MA penetrated our defenses through a combination of speed and fast capturing of flags.

    I believe this to be a weakness inherent to our current mode of play. It's been said that TG's great advantages over pubbies is our defense, but this is a rigid defense that works well only on CPs with one squad. It is unflexible, but resistant to enemy attacks. But in reality, we cannot place a squad on every CP due to restrictions inherent in the game.

    I propose a new paradigm of defensive thinking: Fluid Defense.
    The concept of fluid defense incorporates both our great strength of rigid flag defense, and the ability to stop enemies breaking through our lines. It requires reactionary movements,initiative and players willing to be adaptive and do the job.

    The state of BF2 warfare is evolving, gentlemen, and we must do the same. It's part of the ethos of mature gaming, the ethos of TG - learn and lead.

    What follows is a mock-up of something similar to that which occurred during the MA scrim, and highlights fluid defense. Note that this is not a proper representation of our planning and tactics, nor of our committed and focused players and leaders.





    The reasons we often don't have troops sitting on defence on flags that are not directly threatened are simple:
    1) It's not enjoyable for the players
    2) We don't have enough players to station a squad at each flag.
    As a result, flags remain undefended, and allow fast-breaking enemies to capture them with ease.

    Solution:
    Have a moving, patrolling squad protecting multiple flags. This squad would utilise multiple different forms of assets - preferably air, land and sea - to minimise any damage done by enemy Fast Attack squads.

    For an example, see the next slide:


    Cliff's Notes version of the above:
    - Have one multi-faceted squad with a variety of assets patrol and secure area around rear + vulnerable flag
    - Maintain comms, and keep each other posted.
    - Use a variety of explosive ordnance to control key maneuvering points and use defensive advantage.

    Comments? Suggestions? Opinions?

    [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1]
    |TG-2nd|munchkin
    Nec aspera terrent.

  • #2
    Re: Fluid Defense

    nice discussion Munch. I had a similar idea that we are about to put into practice in 1stMIP. A fast-response fire team.

    Basically it is: when a squad is defending a CP which has a buggy, they should be able to mobilize that buggy very quickly.

    And when I say very quickly, I mean within a couple of seconds, it should be filled with 3 soldiers of proper kit and be on the way to either intercept or catch-up the penetrating enemy unit.

    This requires a procedure and practice because;
    - A fire team will be assigned for the buggy
    - Buggy will be parked with proper orientation (not facing a building for example), ready to move to a potentially weak spot
    - And there will be a designated driver who will not consume any alcohol while we are at defense ;)

    Squad members will know who is going to run to the buggy and also know where it is parked so they will be running to get into without spending time to locate it. In my experience, I know it takes too long to achieve, if it is not practiced properly. This will save crucial seconds that may decide losing or keeping a back flag.

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    • #3
      Re: Fluid Defense

      Just for clarification, dont get me wrong Munch. What I described is just an extension to what you have said.

      Therefore it sounds perfectly ok to assign a squad at the center point of multiple lightly/not defended back flags.

      In addition to that, all CP defending squads should be able to use their buggies really fast, in the form of fast-responding units. Because this will also be related to providing backup to a squad already defending a CP but overpowered by enemy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fluid Defense

        Good idea munchkin,

        From my experience of the game, this would lend itself very well to the NINJA squad proposed by mishkan.

        I haven't participated in any scrims, but i've played the game alot, some thoughts:

        -The reality of the example situation provided above is that, in most cases, the BULK of the attack is going to be on the front line, meaning the closest flag(s) the enemy can get to from their closest capture point.

        -In the situation shown, we have ticket bleed, and would probably win the round if we could hold this setup.

        -I think TG makes a mistake when we try to defend with one squad per CP we own, this doesn't put the strength where the statistical liklihood of the attack is going to be.

        -I say, Have two full 6 man squads at the southwest most flag we own. 1 Full squad on that farmhouse (middle CP) flag, and have both of those aa sites manned at all times harassing jets and helos. Then one full 6 man squad on the easternmost flag we own.

        -This setup creates a strong "frontline"

        -Now any smart opfor is going to have at least one squad attempt to bypass this strong frontline and go for a rear flag.

        -Forget the use of ribs and fav's... silly, we have two blackhawks on this map. One blackhawk will be used by a 2 or 3 man squad of spec ops taking out enemy commander equipment. The other will be used by the NINJAS.

        -NINJAS (must be capitalized) should take the blackhawk and land it on that large mountain that overlooks all the rear flags. This does several things; 1. it should be landed and unmanned so that it doesn't show up as a target to enemy jets, 2. being on that mountain would allow the NINJAs to have a good view over those rear flags.

        -The CO should be watching closely for opfor squads sneaking around. As early as possible spot the enemy, put a UAV on them, and warn the NINJA leader.

        -The NINJAs proceed to hop in their blackhawk and attempt to intercept this sneaky squad. They should have the pilot stay in the hawk, and one gunner, the other four will be used to drop out and attack on foot. With the power of the blackhawk minigun and four ground troops, they should be able to intercept most single squad attacks. This is especially true becuase for them to have sneaked by means they probably don't have any type of thick skinned armor.

        I think this setup will allow the most flexible defense strategy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fluid Defense

          Originally posted by Bhack
          -NINJAS (must be capitalized) should take the blackhawk and land it on that large mountain that overlooks all the rear flags. This does several things; 1. it should be landed and unmanned so that it doesn't show up as a target to enemy jets, 2. being on that mountain would allow the NINJAs to have a good view over those rear flags.
          An unmanned BH may attract unwanted attention. Personally, I watch the map for unmanned vehicles where they shouldn't be. ;)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fluid Defense

            Originally posted by Bhack
            1 Full squad on that farmhouse (middle CP) flag, and have both of those aa sites manned at all times harassing jets and helos. Then one full 6 man squad on the easternmost flag we own.
            As someone who participated in the defense of the Farmhouse in the MA scrim, I say it is a bad idea. The Farmhouse has no real strategic value (1 jeep and boat spawn) and is highly undefendable. The AA guns are ineffective and having two people man them leaves only 4 people to defend the flag. Without control of the Temple to the north, there is nothing to stop infantry from swarming in on foot (which is what happened). This flag is totally vulnerable to vehicles as there is little cover and too many ways to access the island. A better idea would be to fortify the much more valuable Market Place with two squads (NE flag).
            -33rd- BaneII
            Smokers & Jokers

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fluid Defense

              Originally posted by BaneII
              As someone who participated in the defense of the Farmhouse in the MA scrim, I say it is a bad idea. The Farmhouse has no real strategic value (1 jeep and boat spawn) and is highly undefendable. The AA guns are ineffective and having two people man them leaves only 4 people to defend the flag. Without control of the Temple to the north, there is nothing to stop infantry from swarming in on foot (which is what happened). This flag is totally vulnerable to vehicles as there is little cover and too many ways to access the island. A better idea would be to fortify the much more valuable Market Place with two squads (NE flag).
              ??

              The situation described was in lieu of the proposed example. In this case there is a frontline defending the most probable attack points, the enemy does not have the temple. You only have to look to the south for attacks, and your team even holds the flag to the southwest of your location, making it even easier.

              And I completely disagree with your comments regarding two manned AA's being ineffective. As an attack chopper pilot myself I know how irritating it is when the enemy holds that CP.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fluid Defense

                Originally posted by Bhack
                ??

                The situation described was in lieu of the proposed example. In this case there is a frontline defending the most probable attack points, the enemy does not have the temple. You only have to look to the south for attacks, and your team even holds the flag to the southwest of your location, making it even easier.

                And I completely disagree with your comments regarding two manned AA's being ineffective. As an attack chopper pilot myself I know how irritating it is when the enemy holds that CP.
                That base is really hard to defend as bane said, unless the enemy is coming from one direction (which they were in the example).

                and i think bane was saying that its ineffective to have 2 guys in the AA because it detracts from guys that are actually defending on the ground. Sure its effective against air, but your screwed on the ground.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fluid Defense

                  AA emplacements should be manned by dedicated AA squad members in my opinion. Stealing main line troops from squads for this prupose is pointless.
                  Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
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                  • #10
                    Re: Fluid Defense

                    personally i believe specops are best for rear flag defense. i would assign 1 specops to each rear flag, and have them watch their flag from afar with detonator in hand. (usually you will not have more than 3 rear flags) when the buggy pulls up, blow the c4. this may not get them all, but it will give you enough time to route your attack helo to clean up, or use the carbine to snipe whats left.

                    an option is to have the other 3 squad members (non specops) in a buggy so they can respond quickly when the enemy is spotted by one of the specops... probably a good choice here would be 2 medics and a AT.. or 2 AT and a medic. you can have a supply crate somewhere for re-arming.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fluid Defense

                      Originally posted by BaneII
                      The Farmhouse has no real strategic value (1 jeep and boat spawn) and is highly undefendable. The AA guns are ineffective and having two people man them leaves only 4 people to defend the flag. (NE flag).
                      I disagree. For me and a mate of mine this is our favorite spot on the map since we play aa alot.

                      Two guys in an aa here (preferabbly one on the hill and one down next to the flag) can really give the planes a hard time and distract them. As for helis.. they will get shot down ALOT because one aa locks the chopper, shoots, and if flares are used, the second aa will finish em off. These aa's are the most effective ones in the whole game for me (except those on the carriers, but they are too far from the battle).
                      Also, these two guys need to enter the aa's only when they know an air vehicle is coming or if they have spotted one themselves. This is necessary to avoid making an easy target for strafing jets.
                      I think this leaves them with quite some time to support the rest of the squad.

                      And when there is a strong ground attack on this flag, they should leave the aa to fight on the ground.

                      By the way, nice maps on the ATC!


                      Kits i would suggest for these guys are:
                      - anti tank for the guy on the hill, and maybe a spec ops or engineer next to the flag, so he can also mine/c4 the east approach to this flag.

                      Honestly i love sitting in those aa's, having a smoke, and just shooting down helo after helo lol.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fluid Defense

                        A couple of very good AT's, or 3 good AT's in a full squad can make that a defendable flag I think. Boats have 50'cals and have a couple of spots that have decent cover nearby, they work real nicely with a couple of AA's to take down choppers and are pretty good infantry stoppers too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fluid Defense

                          Originally posted by TG_Santa
                          That base is really hard to defend as bane said, unless the enemy is coming from one direction (which they were in the example).

                          and i think bane was saying that its ineffective to have 2 guys in the AA because it detracts from guys that are actually defending on the ground. Sure its effective against air, but your screwed on the ground.
                          disagree.

                          The guys in the AA can EASILY hop off to help defend against a ground force. They should be stationed there when not engaged by ground forces at all times to harass jets/choppers. And as a chopper pilot myself, I can tell you AA can be very effective, especially when there are two targeting you at once.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fluid Defense

                            Originally posted by FPS_Douglas
                            A couple of very good AT's, or 3 good AT's in a full squad can make that a defendable flag I think. Boats have 50'cals and have a couple of spots that have decent cover nearby, they work real nicely with a couple of AA's to take down choppers and are pretty good infantry stoppers too.

                            Boats dont' have 50 cals, they have the crappy SAW.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fluid Defense

                              The thing aboutn the South Island flag is that it is a bottle neck for the WHOLE ENTIRE MAP. You have to move past it whoever holds it and that is what makes it importnant strategically.

                              It has 5 entries over water, most of which are screened from each other by the AA hill so it is hard for one squad to defend them all. But a fireteam on the each opposite bank tot he south has good cover and easy front AT shots on buggies. The banks are narrow roads that contain approaching enemies right in fron of a stand of trees just to the north on each bank. If the defense moves here instead of on the flag(and let's an small AA garrison from a dedicated AA squad police up any sneaky lone infiltrators), you can hold this important bottleneck.

                              If the bank defense is overrun a rapid boat redeployment to the former bank defensive position encircles the attacking force and prepares for the next attack. When doing this though it is better to spawn at the northern boat spawns and take the long route keeping the island between you and the attack force. I.e. if they are attacking up the east road under the pipelines, spawn temple and take the boat down the west and then cut in behind them to the bridge inlet. Then redeploy rear armor AT shots as well as cut off reinforcements.
                              Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
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