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Viper's Dogfighting 101

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  • Viper's Dogfighting 101

    #1 Use A JOYSTICK. I'm sorry people, but M&K just won't get you very far in BF2 air to air combat.

    #2 F-35 is crap. Ever Since patch 1.03 the F-35B is just worse than the rest of the planes. I just can't seem to keep up with enemy planes (not even bombers) with this fighter anymore. Loosing enemies in this is even harder now, not to mention when you slow down, it is visible by your engine exaust port going verticle (so they know you are trying to stop and can comensate). On top of all that, it's hitbox is now as big as a bomber's. Hitting this thing in a tight turn is a breeze with missles. I'm not telling you that it is impossible to get kills in this plane, just harder than all the rest. Hopefully this will get adressed in a future patch.

    #3 Guns are your friend. Missles are nice to clean up with, but switch to bombs and tail an enemy into nice, level flight, aim for the engine port (or between them if there are 2) and let er' rip. After about 1/2 second of gunfire, switch to missles and launch 1 before lock and 1 after all while still firing your guns. If you are directly lined up with them, the pre-lock missle does have a chance of hitting them. Either way, the gunfire will at least get them to white smoking status and let them know who they are dealing with.

    #4 Full throttle, all the time. Never slow down while in a jet. I don't care if you are strafing that hovering Cobra. It is safer to make 2 full speed runs at it than one slow death crawl. This applies to bombers too. Let your WSO know that you will be going full speed all the time and they will have to be on the ball with targets. After extensive testing, I know my gunners have no problems hitting targets while going top speed.

    #5 J-10 is your best friend or worse enemy. Now while you can keep up with this plane, it's hitbox is smallest of all. Hitting it with missles is dang near impossible and gunning it takes a steady hand and a quick eye (and/or visa-versa). Though I may have discovered a trick to beating this bugger recently, it does require more research.

    #6 Check your 6'. I suggest binding a look behind button to your joystick. Anytime you go into straight and level flight, look behind you. It's also helpful for letting you know how well your bombing run did.

    #7 Be agressive. Got that enemy smoking and then lost him? Head for the opfor airfield and wait for him to return for repairs. Some may call this cheap, I call it "Your dead and I'm not".

    #8 Wingman. The easiest possible missle shot you could ever have is coming up behind your wingman when he is chasing an enemy jet.
    You--->Wingman---->Enemy
    They will be so preoccupied dodging your wingman, your missles will get some pretty impressive angles on them.
    Never use your missles on an enemy chasing your wingman unless you want tks. I don't care if they are in straight and level flight, 9/10 times you will do more harm than good. Still, locking on to them might make them break off.

    #9 Leading with guns. Same as leading with a sniper rifle. Estimate the distance and plan ahead.

    #10 Bombing. Don't use the HUD instruments. Just go high, dive straight at your target, and bombs away. 5 seconds of guns takes out an APC also, use this how you like.

    #11 Don't just fight, learn. Most BF2 pilots will do the same moves over and over. Watch and learn their tell and use it to your advantage. As an example, I will use Steel_Penguin.

    On Zatar the other day, Penguin would go into a sharp 180° left turn and then do a corkscrew. After doing this 2 times in a row, I caught on. Missles got him every time in the roll after that (or he would crash into the ground evading).

    #12 Have fun and share. It is just a game, have fun and don't get mad just because you keep getting shot down. Try using another evasive tactic and be more agressive. Been flying for 15+ minutes while somebody is grounded in your squad? Ask them if they are ready/ would like to fly.
    |TG-33rd|Dark_Viper




  • #2
    Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

    Nice, thanks ;)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

      Keep in mind guys, that these are just the basics. I can't flood the server with "Top Guns" (haha Bom) just yet. Nor can I have everybody and their moms shooting me out of the sky.
      |TG-33rd|Dark_Viper



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

        Uh Oh. Bom is going in-depth with his guidelines. Perhaps we should just change the name of the topic to Dogfighting Tactics.

        Anyway people, there you have it. At least 2 different strategies, how can you go wrong. And I'm sure VMFA will be posting here soon, check back often.
        |TG-33rd|Dark_Viper



        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

          There's dogs in the new expansion?
          Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
          live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA
          Friend me!

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          • #6
            Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

            Thanks Viper

            In #10, why did you say not to use the HUD instrument?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

              I still dont understand how you get ANY missiles to EVER hit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

                Originally posted by TG_Santa
                I still dont understand how you get ANY missiles to EVER hit.
                Ditto that, I seem to get hit by missiles while doing the tightest turn I can yet when on the enemies tail my missiles miss when they're flying straight with no flares!

                At least I can bomb and cannon ground targets when not lagging, otherwise it ends up like pinball (last night the other jet said he hit me and we bounced off each other.... on my screen we were 50 feet appart!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

                  Originally posted by TG_Santa
                  I still dont understand how you get ANY missiles to EVER hit.
                  When they fly directly down length of the airstrip while you're powering up on the runway, that's usually a good time to fire. :)
                  In game handle: Steel Scion
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

                    Originally posted by Hockeydude
                    Thanks Viper

                    In #10, why did you say not to use the HUD instrument?
                    First of all, I never figured out how to use them. I was used to bombing in BF42 and you had no hud, so you just had to learn when to drop your bombs. If you somehow do better using the bombing reticle, then by all means continue using it. These are not clear and cut rules, just the guidelines of how I fly.

                    And about the missles everybody, it's all about the timing. I don't really know how to explain it other than just anticipate their moves. They don't have to be going in a straight line for the missles to hit them, just in a position where they are less manuverable.
                    |TG-33rd|Dark_Viper



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

                      Since Viper finally became kind enough to shared his tips i might share my secret too.... (This will get you a lot of air to air kill)

                      When you see your enemy pulling up sharply right in front of you. Instinctively, you will also follow him and pull up. Release a missile when you are very near him (let's say directly behind him). The missile is a sure hit

                      For those who just cannot understand, let me explain again. When the bugger pulls up, all you have to do is to make a slight sharper turn than him. What happens then is, you will appear right behind him (in a sense that you can see his cockpit and his tail fin vertical in front of your face!!!) When this happens, MISSILE AWAY! The missile WILL hit him, and if he has already gotten enough damage, he would die. Do not attempt to fire off 2 missiles in this scenario as the 2nd one is quite likely to miss.

                      *Again use those GUNS, and shoot those bombers. I manage to put almost every bomber i see out of its misery with mainly my guns including Dark Viper. But he is still the best pilot I have ever seen in Bf2.

                      *To what Viper said, F-35B does have its weak points but what people dont know is it and F-18 has a FAST ROLL RATE, which mean you can change direction much more faster (meaning less flying in straight line) than the J10 although you have worse maneuverbility.

                      [cross][conduct]
                      Remember: "Eddie Chiang is always cooler than the other side of your pillow."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101



                        "When the attacker realises that he is unable to stay on the inside of the defender's turn, he relaxes his angle of bank a little, then pulls high. As he comes over the top he is inverted, looking down at his opponent through the top of his canopy. His speed falls due to the climb, and this diminishes his radius of turn. The Ig of gravity is utilised by turning in the vertical plane, which reduces the radius of turn still further. The attacker should then be well placed to slide down into a firing position.

                        The high-speed yoyo is a very difficult maneuver to perform well, and demands perfect timing and precise execution. If it is commenced too early, the defender can counter by pulling up into the attack. If started too late, the attacker is forced to pull up at an excessively steep angle to avoid overshooting. This allows the defender to disengage by diving away. A common fault in executing the high-speed yoyo is not pulling the nose high enough. This can result in the attacker ending directly above the defender."

                        It's awesome. Props to Viper for this one.

                        [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1]
                        |TG-2nd|munchkin
                        Nec aspera terrent.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

                          So what about those magic missile hax...none of these tips explains how your and your missiles only hit me at 90 degree angles while I'm turning at full speed while I've never seen anyone or be able to do that myself and I've tried everything :|

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Viper's Dogfighting 101

                            Originally posted by Dark Viper
                            #2 F-35 is crap. Ever Since patch 1.03 the F-35B is just worse than the rest of the planes. ... Loosing enemies in this is even harder now, not to mention when you slow down, it is visible by your engine exaust port going verticle (so they know you are trying to stop and can comensate).
                            Only when you're using a dedicated throttle... When using the keyboard for engine control, releasing the "forward" key puts the engine in idle, without rotating the engine cowl downwards. Similarly, when flying a bomber, it will kill all forward thrust without extending the (utterly dysfunctional, by the way) airbrake.
                            <insert signature spam here>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How to turn AA missles into hittles?

                              Originally posted by Kilrogg
                              So what about those magic missile hax...none of these tips explains how your and your missiles only hit me at 90 degree angles while I'm turning at full speed while I've never seen anyone or be able to do that myself and I've tried everything :|
                              FWIW, these are the things I tried to get my missles finding their mark consistently... with no success at all, I might add. Whatever I try, it seems like even the slightest turn or roll of the target jet will cause my missles to, well, miss.
                              • Aspect angles: tried everything from 0 degrees (on the target's six) to 90 degrees (at straight angles), with the occasional head-on shot thrown in as well. Doesn't seem to make the slightest difference. Even missle shots from the target's six position seem to veer off wildly at times.
                              • Attack geometry: tried firing when in lag, pure and lead pursuit (i.e. my nose pointing behind, on, or in front of the target). No dice.
                              • Range: firing from long range (target is a blip on the horizon), medium range (able to read the fuselage markings), and close range (able to see the white of their eyes).
                              • Strength in numbers: tried firing single missles, all the way up to salvos of six (yes, it's a waste, but frustration gets the upper hand sometimes). Result: when the first one misses, they all do.
                              • And my favourite: firing at stationary, hovering helos that are not using flares, followed by observing all missles just streak by harmlessly, despite having a solid lock.

                              Just about the only time I'm able to hit something with any rate of success, is when pursuing a hapless target that just trods along in a straight line, despite all the warning claxons and red strobes lighting up his cockpit. I won't name any names, of course. *cough*Perry*cough*

                              YET, when on the receving end, I've seen missles just tracking madly, even when I'm in a tight, full-afterburner turn. Most notably Eggplant and Xeil are able to get me any time, regardless of the maneouver I'm pulling to avoid the incoming missle (I haven't flown against DV for a while, but I'm sure he'd fall into that category as well).

                              So, I guess it's time to let go of any remaining shreds of dignity and self-respect, get on my knees and cry for help like a baby here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :)
                              <insert signature spam here>

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