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  • Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

    We all feel the lack of a good inter-squad communication system in the game. Using teamspeak to fill the gap is not easy, especially during a public game. So I was just wondering if we can use an in-game commo rose message for this and I think we can...

    Lets say you positioned your squad southwest of a target flag but it is well defended and moving forward is suicide. You put your men into a defensive line formation under cover and engage enemy.

    Right now, you need the help of another squad, attacking the flag from another direction, while you attracted full enemy attention.

    SL, taps the "Request Backup" message twice. Another SL in the area responds to the call, taps twice "Roger" and positions his squad on a different side of the target.

    When the time is right, one of the SLs initiates the attack towards the flag. Other SL keeps an eye on his map and also moves forward with his squad at the same time.

    Both squads hit the flag almost at the same time, from different directions.

    Communication is achieved by using commo rose and coordination is achieved by just keeping an eye on the map.

    I say lets give it a shot and see how it works...

    EDIT: We can use commo rose "GO GO GO" as the signal for pushing forward...
    Last edited by John CANavar; 12-08-2005, 10:49 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

    That's an interesting idea. The problem is that a lot of time (for me atleast) the commo rose messages just turn into spam. But if a couple SLs pay attention it could be awesome. The other thing is if you have a CO that's paying close attention it would be pretty easy for him to get that plan into action. A few times that i've played this has been a problem because there's been no CO at all. In those situations this tactic would be ideal.
    |TG-1stMIP| Shawn02




    [volun]

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    • #3
      Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

      Luckily, request backup call from commo rose is not very commonly used and we can even reserve it for inter-squad communication. Because squads have VOIP and they dont need many commo rose functions for communication.

      It would be great, if we can use these "unused commo rose functions" for inter-squad communication.

      I was about to write a couple of things on CO issue. Good point shawn.

      The protocol can still be used if there is a CO. As a rule of thumb, squads must obey CO orders first. But when a CO assigns two squads to attack a flag, then this protocol can be used by squads to coordinate.

      Example:

      CO: "Squad 4 and 5, coordinate and attack Oil refinery"

      Now squad 4 and 5 would need a communication way and this protocol may help that...

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      • #4
        Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

        Heh, last night when we were perfecting the buddy rush drill we'll be teaching at the minicamp we appropriated the Go GO GO command too.

        I think this would almost entirely depend on a CO's involvement to re-iterate the procedure to the squads under his command and to tell them when they share the same objective. Without a CO I think it will be like the sir strike SOP. Totally un-utilized because none of the SLs can talk to the intended recievers of the protocol. In both cases I think the COs need to be strongly encouraging their pilots and if this is adopted, the SLs to use this protocol. Otherwise TG's just another two-bit pubbie server.

        Sorry I can't make tonight.
        Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
        live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA
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        • #5
          Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

          Originally posted by John CANavar
          Because squads have VOIP and they dont need many commo rose functions for communication.
          Just for clarity, I want to emphasize the "many" in that statement - I think we all agree that it's preferable use these functions in addition to VOIP? ("Enemy spotted" w/ a blinking "?" on the map makes the "there's a guy in that building to our north" heard over VOIP much more valuable...

          Originally posted by John CANavar
          It would be great, if we can use these "unused commo rose functions" for inter-squad communication.

          I was about to write a couple of things on CO issue. Good point shawn.

          The protocol can still be used if there is a CO. As a rule of thumb, squads must obey CO orders first. But when a CO assigns two squads to attack a flag, then this protocol can be used by squads to coordinate.
          agreed! I've been thinking a little more about it, and the idea is growing on me... Though I think your initial roughed-out protocol is slightly of target in terms of the meaning of the messages: I think the squad should request help from a commander (when present), and that commander would then dispatch the appropriate squad to help... this is a CO-level decision.

          Once that's established, I see three things that need communication:
          1) "Requesting squad" must tell "reinforcing squad" where to attack from (although really, this should be implicit based on "requesting squad's" location)

          2) "reinforcing squad" must indicate it is "in possition"

          3) "main squad" then gives signal to go, go, go


          Also - this protocol is helpful in the (common) situation where only a fireteam is dispatched to support another squad. In this case, they have one more level of indirection in communication: fireteam->SLx->CO->SLy




          EDIT: adding image for reference




          Perhaps the "reinforcements in possition and ready" (my #2 above) might be indicated by these two commands in immediate succession:
          |TG|WhiskeySix: "Need Reinforcements"
          |TG|WhiskeySix: "Roger That"

          And of course "go,go,go" means.. well.. go.


          Only other thought was in regard to positioning (my #1 above)... one thing that's never used is the vehicle specific commands. If you right click the "spotted" circle, you get a bunch of things to spot. So one idea would be to position the other squad, you put a "enemy boat spotted" in the middle of the land... or something obvious like that... (though honestly, at the lightspeed pace of battle, i'm not sure if this level of protocol would work - maybe after we get the first 2 locked in ;) )
          Last edited by WhiskeySix; 12-08-2005, 12:31 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

            If you see me as CO then give me a shout so I can try and setup some co-ordinated attacks for you to try it in a game.

            It does need CO co-operation, it really annoys me when a squad who should be defending decides to go somewhere else without telling me, they accept the defend order then ignore it.

            CO should always be the first person to request backup from. Quite often i'll double team a flag with two squads from different directs but notace there isn't really any co-ordination between them, this is the situatuation to use this kind of communication, imho.

            Just to continue what WhiskeySix was saying, one squad leader should be put in charge to reduce any confusion, when the primary SL says "Go Go Go" the secondary replies "Roger That", then the attack begins, if no responce is given another "Go Go Go" should be given incase the first was missed. If the other squad is pinned down then "Negative" or "Need Backup" should be given. There needs to be a command recognized to mean "get on the flag" so both squads get as many soldiers on the flag to turn it, if Go Go Go is used to start an attack then a different command is needed.

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            • #7
              Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

              In the past, some have referred to the SL-->SL communication as the missing link. Most of the time, the CO is too busy or is too pubby to act as a messenger between squads. Besides, when you're an SL, you have to look at a lot of cues to determine the right time to move in on the flag. There are a lot of details going into this that can't be seen on the CO screen. The CO can tell you generally what flag to attack, but he can't really guide you step-by-step how to do it. The best a CO can really do in a situation like this is to say "Squads 4 and 5, attack Hill" or "Squad 4, Squad 5 will be helping you cap that flag." That's the extent to which he can really coordinate the attack.

              Using "Go, go, go" is useful because a SL can tell his squad when to attack and simultaneously be informing the other SL that his squad is attacking. "Requesting Backup" can be used to inform the other squad that you're in a position to attack but can't do so until a distracting (flanking) squad is already moving in.

              So it could go like this:

              Squad 1 gets into a position to attack but has to defend there until getting help from Squad 2.
              Squad 1: "Requesting backup!"
              Squad 2: "Roger that! Roger that!" (2 Rogers so they know it's not an unrelated Roger to someone else in his squad or the CO)
              Squad 2 gets into a position to attack and is ready to attack immediately.
              Squad 2: "Go, go, go!"
              Squad 2 attacks, loosening the enemy's defense and Squad 1 sees an opening.
              Squad 1: "Go, go, go!"
              ...and Squad 1 starts its own attack.


              Okay, so that's the situation when Squad 1 can't attack yet but Squad 2 can basically attack whenever it wants and takes the lead. But what if defense is strong on both flanks, and our Squads' only hope is to attack from both directions simultaneously?

              Squad 1: "Requesting reinforcements!"
              Squad 2: "Roger that! Roger that!"
              Squad 2 gets into its own position to attack, but sees strong defense on their side as well.
              Squad 2: "Requesting reinforcements!"
              Squad 1: "Roger that! Roger that!"
              Now both Squads know they need to attack simultaneously.
              Squad 1: "Go, go, go!"
              Squad 2: "Go, go, go!"
              And the enemy are attacked by both sides.

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              • #8
                Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

                It is taking a shape James, great job !

                Now as for any procedure, we need maximum simplicity so nothing will stay on paper and can be used actually. What about combining the first and second so that always the reinforcement squad (squad 2) initiates the attack

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                • #9
                  Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

                  I often use the 'need backup' shortcut, but wasn't aware that no one listens to that :-)
                  In earnest: I think it is great to use the built-in comm functions. They work best in your native language though. Pratcivnica slodz komi - just doesn't immediately spring me into action.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

                    I like it dude. If you can snap me out of SL mode through the CO when an opportunity presents itself, I'm all about it. :)
                    Beatnik

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                    • #11
                      Re: Inter-Squad Coordination with Commo

                      Great ideas guys. Coordinated squads can roll over just about any defense. I would love to see this in action. (from a safe distance)
                      Peace through fear... since 1947!

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