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Troubles as a defensive SL

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  • Troubles as a defensive SL

    So, I've led a few squads here recently and I've noticed a gaping hole in my defensive abilities. Not my personal shooting abilities, but my abilities to organize the squad members to form an effective defense.

    I can often hold off an initial wave, but the second wave will come in and I can't figure out how to hold that one off. I know, eliminate the enemy SL, but it's often tough to locate him when there's either no CO or the CO is worrying about other flags. I'd rather the CO be there as an extra helper to call in, rather than an asset that I absolutely depend on, if that makes sense.

    I dunno, maybe just a few times where anyone would have been overran are sticking out in my mind, but I just feel like I don't have as much control over the situation as I would like. I either die very quickly or am simply caught looking the other way and before I know it, there's 4 guys flipping our flag (and then I die trying to get them off when I should have moved back to organize a counter). I don't think it's a problem with the squad members as they've always been ready and willing to follow orders, but I'm just not able to figure out what orders I should be giving.

    So, go ahead and throw out some defensive SLing tips for everyone.. Maybe some obvious stuff, maybe some not so obvious stuff. If you don't SL, then what do you like your SL to tell you when you're going on defense? Assume a normal day-to-day game situation, not a scrimmage. You're in a full squad, maybe middle of the round so some of your initial kit layouts have gotten jumbled up and may not be ideal at that particular time (maybe a problem in itself?).

    (yes, I'm asking this even though I have 2 of those defense ribbons :p )
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  • #2
    Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

    Well, as a squad member, I try to get as good a vantage point as possible as quickly as possible when on defense -- overlooking especially the direction(s) of likely enemy attacks. I know this is a pretty obvious thing, but sometimes I don't see squads doing this, and IMO it's key. Having at least one spotter to provide advance warning can be a deciding factor on defense. So if at least one person in your squad isn't set up as a spotter, make sure to assign someone(s) to do it (and it doesn't have to be a Sniper).

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    • #3
      Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

      I've got two things I do when defending:

      1) Order your guys to create "supply depots"
      You, as defender, know where you'll be fighting from, and should ensure that you'll run-over meds and ammo during the course of your fight. Conversely, the attackers must move to your position, so it's harder for their support/medics to throw meds/ammo on the ground near their fighting position.

      So - have your guys dump EVERY LAST ONE of their med-packs and ammo-bags (they recharge very quickly), and tell them to keep it stocked! No point dying w/ ammo/meds in your pocket - throw them and throw them often.

      Also - related to this: once it's clear what we're defending, I'll sometimes use the "move here" marker to say where I want that supply dump. This puts the yellow "smoke-grenade" in plain sight for the squad, which has a few obvious advantages... first, where to start the goodie pile, and second where to go for health/ammo (same benefit as the parachute icon on the map for the crates) - there's no forgetting where to go to get healed-up/reloaded. (For some reason, I always see ammo and medpacks thrown out in the middle of the road? :row__628: If I've got 3 bars of health left, i wanna go dive behind a fence/building/dirt-pile to get meds, NOT out in the middle of a 4-way intersection. :row__577:)

      Of course - it's best to spread the supplies around, rather than having one easily grenadable location. Ideally, you just wanna saturate your fire-positions with supplies.

      2) The other thing is to recognize how you most often get taken out, and equip your squad accordingly.
      For me, it seems that when we get pushed off a flag it's almost ALWAYS with the help of a vehicle - APC or Tank. With that in mind, I always make sure to have a good smart engineer and specops on the squad for defense. If you know there's an enemy armor-spawn nearby, you should load up w/ AT as well...

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      • #4
        Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

        C4 on the flag + 4 bad guys on the flag = fun in the sun. You get to hunt down the enemy squad leader while he tries to figure out what happened to his squad.

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        • #5
          Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

          Improvisation and split responsibilities.

          We often see that people like making two firing squads, but we often don't see squad leaders taking the initiative to change their squad lineup based on their objective or role.

          Certain kits are simply better for defense. I often like having two medics in the squad while going on offensive runs, but it really isn't as advantageous on defense. It's debatable whether a squad needs any medics on defense honestly. Have your squad change it up based on what flag point they have to defend.

          Defending the construction site on Sharqi? Get lots of assault kits to cover the stairwells and take advantage of the higher ground.

          Got a flag with clear bottlenecks. Use C4 and lots of it. C4 is one of the most undervalued defensive weapons in the game and I don't understand why more squad leaders use it more while holding a flag.
          |TG|seppy

          [tg-c1][medic]


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          • #6
            Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

            Originally posted by seppyk
            I often like having two medics in the squad while going on offensive runs, but it really isn't as advantageous on defense. It's debatable whether a squad needs any medics on defense honestly.
            hm. interesting. I almost always have 2 medics - especially if not usmc (auto AK > burst m16). I see the job on defense is to survive the waves of attacks... flags turn pretty quickly w/ bodies on the flag, so reviving seems to me to be pretty crucial to defense... on offense, you can fall-back, respawn at the SL, and launch a new attack - on defense, if you're getting wasted at the flag, there's no where to fallback to - you need your squad alive NOW, not in 15.... 14.... 13....

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            • #7
              Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

              Originally posted by Strag
              Well, as a squad member, I try to get as good a vantage point as possible as quickly as possible when on defense -- overlooking especially the direction(s) of likely enemy attacks. I know this is a pretty obvious thing, but sometimes I don't see squads doing this, and IMO it's key. Having at least one spotter to provide advance warning can be a deciding factor on defense. So if at least one person in your squad isn't set up as a spotter, make sure to assign someone(s) to do it (and it doesn't have to be a Sniper).
              As obvious as that may be, it's a good idea to tell you squad to watch as many entrances to your flag as possible. I often see squad members bunch up in one spot and all look the same way. Then some enemies come from another direction flip the flag and then use UAV to mop up the defenders.

              If you know where the enemy is than they're easy to eliminate, so watch everything. If one of your squad members sees an enemy try to get a UAV or send over one person to scout. Don't leave the flag unwatched while taking down attackers though. (Otherwise someone else might come from another direction and take the flag)

              If you know that you can not kill the attackers yourself (They have a bunch of armour or something) then hide the squad leader, and call for arty before they get to the flag. If the commander acts quickly then the arty should start firing a few seconds before they are actually on the flag (so they'll probablly assume the arty was aimed at something else) and they'll all try to jump on the flag quickly to turn it. Then the arty should actually start falling while they are all on the flag and should kill most (if not all) of them. Make sure your squad members are spread around the flag enough to catch any surviviors, and then go and make sure the flag is up all the way.

              Keep in mind, I'm no super SL, so these stratigies may not work all that well.
              AKA ContingencyPlan


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              • #8
                Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                I rarely SL, but two things I think are pretty important:

                1. 360 degree security. On some flags you can narrow your focus, but it's important to have eyes on all the approaches to the flag.

                2. Sticking to positions. If you've got one or two enemies running around outside your flag, you probably don't want your entire squad chasing after them, leaving the flag open. Of course, if you're being hit hard, you'll probably have to focus most of you squads attention on that area, but you should still be on the lookout for flankers.

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                • #9
                  Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                  Another thing thats pretty obvious but i still see happen all the time is, people letting spawned armor sit around.. never fails that a buggy will come flying in, hop out and grab unattended armor...
                  As far as what kits...it all depends on what flag your defending.Today we were defending WITH GREAT SUCCESS oil cisterns against wave after wave of armor with lots of AT kits...another thing, your wasting an AT kit if that AT guy is on a TOW if armor comes rolling in get another class on the TOW that cant otherwise help out with armor.
                  That being said i think the most important part of defence is comunication. Like strag said getting a spotter to spot incoming as soon as possible so your squad can set up for it, is key......just my two rusty pennys

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                  • #10
                    Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                    All good answers to this thread so far. My big concerns when setting up D against (what I think will be) strong assaults:

                    1. Traps. C4 and Mines where needed. If possible, I like to be Spec Ops and stay far away, but in sight of, the flag.

                    2. Intel. Stay up high where you can. Have people looking all directions in a relatively wide perimeter of the flag. Make sure everyone spots everything that moves.

                    3. Communication/Adaptation. When an incoming assault is spotted, everyone in the squad should know and adapt. Either have everyone re-direct to meet them farther away (and if they're lucky take out SL), everyone fall back and get tight on the flag, or whatever else the situation calls for.

                    4. Armor. Defend against it (with traps, AT) and NEVER let it go unoccupied under your watch.

                    5. CO. Use the UAV when you suspect there are more enemies.

                    6. Supplies. Having lots of ammo/health kits available (and even a crate) is great. Especially for ATs and Spec Ops and Engineers.
                    Beatnik

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                    • #11
                      Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                      Perhaps one of the best threads I have seen in a while on TG as I think this is a common weakness. I will try to add without repeating others thoughts...

                      Situational awareness is huge, that includes looking at the big map to figure out what likely attacks the enemy will be making. Then based off attack routes I normally use, will try to set up overwatch on those paths.

                      Communication has been mentioned and it is huge. The spotting the enemy function is underused and if you have guys who know how to use it, you will pick up enemy attacks quickly.

                      I try to gauge an attacking squads ability in attacking flags so that I know when it's time for me to start thinking about reattacking a flag. If it's a typical TG squad attacking and my squad is well motivated, I don't plan on retreating out of a fight. Based off of feel and experience, you have to know when to break off as an SL and allow your guys a second chance to reclaim a flag if they lose it. I can't stand to have armor that my guys should have to be used against us.

                      It's something I wish I was better at as well.

                      Lucky Shot

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                      • #12
                        Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                        Originally posted by Beatnik
                        2. Intel. Stay up high where you can. Have people looking all directions in a relatively wide perimeter of the flag. Make sure everyone spots everything that moves.

                        3. Communication/Adaptation. When an incoming assault is spotted, everyone in the squad should know and adapt. Either have everyone re-direct to meet them farther away (and if they're lucky take out SL), everyone fall back and get tight on the flag, or whatever else the situation calls for.
                        2 and 3 are somewhat related.. Communicate the Intel and change accordingly.

                        And 3 is something I've seen you do, Beatnik. Launching counter-assaults on the assaulting squad to catch them off guard and quickly clean them up. Is it just a gut feeling you go by, or are there certain signs you look for?

                        I've noticed myself looking at the big picture of the map a little more, like Lucky mentions. Looking at empty armor to see if armor may be heading our way from a certain direction. Checking what enemy flags are not under assault which would allow the enemy to move out and assault me.

                        Using armor is something that is VERY hard to get people to do. On Daqing the other night, I assigned someone a tank and told him that was his tank for the rest of the round. No matter what, his #1 priority was to make sure that tank had someone in it. Unfortunately, he just got bombed over and over and over, and we decided to move out.. but it's the thought that counts, right? :p Heh, I did that because on a previous night on Daqing we had our tank stolen over and over at the Gas Station. So I do try to learn from my mistakes.

                        Kits are a problem in nightly games. People come, people go, people adapt to current situations. You're not always going to have your ideal kit selection. You may have a support guy at the start of the round, but you may lose him for one reason or another as the round goes by. You'll sometimes be thankful for that extra AT one minute, but a couple minutes later you'll really wish you still had your support guy, ya know?

                        How active of a role should the SL play in the actual defending -- going out and shooting people? Obviously, "it depends", but does anyone have a good rule of thumb to go by?
                        Battlefield Admin() ()
                        [volun2][medic][defense3][eng2][support]
                        [sg-c1][gchq-c1][tog-c1][ma-c1][taw-c1][tg-c2]
                        | for | |

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                        • #13
                          Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                          If you feel a second wave coming in after the current one you're fighting, stay away from the action. I, as SL, tend to play support and drop supplies. I notice vehicles spawning and yell to the squddies to man the APC, or 50 CAL.
                          I stay back behind some rock or tree, close to the flag, generally covering one ore more approaches and the flag iteself. Hight helps, bit only if you've got cover.
                          I spot and talk with the CO and my squaddies. If I have a clean line of fire on an enemy, and I'm 99% sure no one sees me, I fire. But I never run into attacks when SL. That's what your guys are s'pposed t'do.
                          The thing is, as SL, you're supposed to have the biggest picture of the battle after the CO. Cant see anything when you're dead. Can direct your guys when you're dead.



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                          • #14
                            Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                            When im SL i am much more agressive as far as getting in on the action when defending a flag, than i would be attacking one. I feel like i dont have to be as much of a spawn point since we have the flag already and if i do happen to die, more times than not i will have time to respawn on the flag. I just think im more good getting a few AT shots in on a tank than hiding behind a rock as a spawn point for a flag we already have. If i see we are losing the flag then i can back off a lil and act as a spawn point for the squad.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Troubles as a defensive SL

                              I think that ideally the SL would know where good positions for everyone are. The SL should know what kits are needed and then dole out assignements: "X you go AT - get on that building; Y you are medic - run around and keep everyone up; Z you are support ..."
                              I have never been able to do that myself. You'd need a regular team, know the flag, each players strength, etc but it would be the best defense.
                              The key is that even if the SL is out or just tired the others would know where to go and what to do.

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