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  • Communicating with and trusting your CO

    Past couple of times ive gone up to CO, ive had a few SLs apparently not agree with an order i give them, and proceed to go off on their own, doing what they think is the right thing to do. This is why im starting this thread. Keep in mind that this whole thread is going off the assumption that your CO is being communicative.

    Many times you may get a questionable order. Could be that your defending a base that another squad is apparently defending, your leaving a base undefended to attack another, etc etc, the list goes on. Any SL is going to doubt that the CO is making a sound and right decision every once and a while. This does not mean that you can simply disobey the order, and not tell the CO anything about it. If you dont follow the order, and instead go somewhere completely different, the CO may not notice because he figured you were staying on your objective. This could result in flags being lost, and your squad being screwed. Why would you want to keep the CO in the dark?

    Instead, if you disagree with an order, TELL HIM why you disagree. Perhaps you have a different take on the situation because your actually there on the ground in the thick of it. As a general way to solve this problem, first tell the CO why you disagree with the order. Second, what you plan on doing. Third, ask him if he agrees. At this point, the CO will either completely agree with you and change your order, or he'll tell you to keep put and will then probably go on to explain why the order is set at that coordinate. Dont hesitate to do this, i think most COs would want not only himself thinking about the grand scheme of things, but every one of his SLs thinking as well.

    This is why its so important for a CO to have VOIP, and for the SL to be communicating with the CO a lot. If theres no communication between the two, the SL may be doing something the CO doesnt want him to do. With communcation between the two guys, you will generally trust what the CO is doing and know what your squad is supposed to be doing.

    I hope the times that this has occured on our server is strictly because the SL didnt think fondly of the order, didnt know how to go about solving that, and tried to improvise. I can understand that. If this isnt the reason the SL went away from his objective, then thats simply not following the rules.

  • #2
    Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

    I agree. Doing your own thing without communication is generally a bad idea. Imagine if a squad member just started acting on his own. You'd kick his butt!

    As Santa said, communication breakdowns can be fatal. Also, both parties should be open to suggestions. I don't command a lot, but when I do I like it if a Squad Leader has a suggestion. Giving a suggestion or using constructive criticism is much more welcome than simply disobeying orders.

    Good post.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

      Originally posted by TG_Santa
      Instead, if you disagree with an order, TELL HIM why you disagree. Perhaps you have a different take on the situation because your actually there on the ground in the thick of it. As a general way to solve this problem, first tell the CO why you disagree with the order. Second, what you plan on doing. Third, ask him if he agrees. At this point, the CO will either completely agree with you and change your order, or he'll tell you to keep put and will then probably go on to explain why the order is set at that coordinate. Dont hesitate to do this, i think most COs would want not only himself thinking about the grand scheme of things, but every one of his SLs thinking as well.
      That says it all right there. It's much better to disagree and tell the CO (who 95% of the time will then agree with you since you can see the situation on the ground and he can't) than say nothing and do something else.
      Beatnik

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      • #4
        Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

        Originally posted by Bommando
        Great post Santa. I need to spread my rep around before giving it to you again.

        Posts like this make me want to take up the CO chair again. See how far being insubordinate on my watch will get you.
        You mean there's no CO in beach volleyball? Man, am I out of touch..

        Great stuff, Santa.

        [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1]
        |TG-2nd|munchkin
        Nec aspera terrent.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

          Just remember that in the end, the SL is to follow the CO's orders whether they agree with them or not.
          |TG-12th| asch
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

            Agreed, 90% of the time if a SL tells me why he doesn't want to follow the order I agree.

            On the other hand it can totally kill you if you are planning on Squad X defending so you focus for a few minutes on the other side of the map and you notice a flag going grey! Only to see Squad X playing checkers in the cornfields!

            Az
            [age-c1][command]

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            • #7
              Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

              I agree... I think some of the SLs get pressure from their SMs... I have seen this one guy... very pushy.... always telling what to do to everybody... when he gets on the SL chair he leaves the squad..lol.. When SL clearly says we got orders to defend this place... he goes off saying "we should attack hotel, i got a jeep les go les go..."

              i think that kind of pressure takes over SLs... Plus SMs also disobey SL's orders...

              I am just glad I have some guidance.... I try to follow each and every order of the CO unless they are completely bezerk.

              No wonder why CO chair is getting filled so rarely... SLs are making it hell for them... SL s need to step it up and follow CO to the teeth. Slap those SMs, and tell it is an order from CO.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                If you're a CO and a SL is not following orders, or if you're a SL and have SMs not following orders, hop on TeamSpeak and let an admin know. We'll sort it out directly.
                Beatnik

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                  Originally posted by |TG| B

                  No wonder why CO chair is getting filled so rarely... SLs are making it hell for them... SL s need to step it up and follow CO to the teeth. Slap those SMs, and tell it is an order from CO.

                  I hear you there. I'm hesitant to be CO on TG because it is really hard to keep track of so many squads on a 64 player server, + there are some really good CO's on TG that are quite hard to stand up to.
                  One night I became CO on karkand when all the squads were full. My plan for defense as mec was to hold the north east and the northwest. So I wanted the suburbs, and the east of the river. For a while things went ok, but then suddenly e few full squads refused to stay at suburb, but instead went to the hotel and square, in which I didn't have any interest at all. Same went for the train accident; squads kept attacking it without being asked, and they even continued when I used VOIP to tell them not to do it, and gave them other waypoints.

                  One whole squad doing something useless, can surely lose the game. When we lost all of the east flags then and my assets, and only half the squads were responding to orders, I resigned. I felt like being CO on a pubbie then. I have no idea who was in the squads, but I suppose my plan was not the usual plan most players follow. For instance the trainstation is very popular to grab and fight from, where I feel it is nothing but a deathtrap. The suburb then again is neglected I feel. It has great advantages though and is an excellent point to attack from.


                  In short, it was quite frustrating and i'm hesitant to try it again, although I had good succes with being CO on the 16 player maps (less flags= easier to control).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                    Originally posted by Beatnik
                    If you're a CO and a SL is not following orders, or if you're a SL and have SMs not following orders, hop on TeamSpeak and let an admin know. We'll sort it out directly.
                    I use this as a last resort because I really believe that we will all follow the rules, even if we have to be reminded every once and a while. I think that if you have to call an admin then someone is trying to ruin everyone's good time and is trying to break the rules.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                      I tried being a SL for the first time yesterday. If the CO gave me an order that didn't make sense or was not something I thought my squad could accomplish, I spoke up and suggested an alternate mission. I was ususally allowed to proceed with my suggestion.

                      For example: I was a sniper and the only member of my squad. The CO gave an order to attack a certain flag. I suggested that I approach the flag and spot for another squad until mine got up to strength. He agreed.

                      Another Example: On sharqi, my squad consisted of 3 members and the MEC where hitting all over the map. CO gave an order to attack the Hotel. We were at Alleyway and would have to go past both Survailance and Construction site which were both under MEC control. I suggested we defend Alleyway or attack Survailence. CO change the order to attack Survailence. Enroute, we encountered a MEC squad moving toward Alleyway. I pulled my sqaud back to defend and informed the CO. He agreed with my decision.

                      The ability to take tactical recomendations from the field is a sign of a good leader. CO's who respond to tactically sound recomendations from the SL's will perform better in the long run.

                      Ultimately, SLs need to follow their orders but shouldn't be a pawn in the CO's game. It is the SLs RESPOSIBILITY to be the COs eyes and ears in the field.

                      Grah
                      "Grah"

                      |TG-Irr|Grahukantar

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                        Originally posted by FishRoy
                        I use this as a last resort because I really believe that we will all follow the rules, even if we have to be reminded every once and a while. I think that if you have to call an admin then someone is trying to ruin everyone's good time and is trying to break the rules.
                        If an SL is unresponsive, you SHOULD notify an admin. That person IS affecting the game for everyone. If the squad is full, that is 6 people of 30 who are not following the CO orders. The result is a losing team, and some unhappy players.

                        Reporting someone doesn't have to be a big deal. Sometimes people just need to see that our rules ARE enforced before they will follow them. Sometimes it takes a warning, other times it takes a kick. Don't be shy about it. We like doing our jobs and keeping up the quality of play.

                        When I am SL and my CO gives me an order I disagree with, I will always respond with an explanation. Make sure you do the same.

                        "Commander, are you sure you want us to move out? The flag next to us just got captured and they will surely come here next!"
                        Peace through fear... since 1947!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                          COing is hard enough without constant "upward feedback". When I SL, I rarely suggest a new order unless I see something very important. I always start my message with "This is Squad X, request permission to..."

                          I keep it short and sweet and INFREQUENT. Some autonomy is good, but if a CO has 6 squads to administer, try to give the guy a break.
                          Only the dead have seen the end of war.
                          -Plato

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                            Originally posted by TheRooster1
                            COing is hard enough without constant "upward feedback". When I SL, I rarely suggest a new order unless I see something very important. I always start my message with "This is Squad X, request permission to..."

                            I'd suggest something more like:


                            "CO, this is Squad 3 over."

                            So that if the CO is in the middle of other traffic with other SLs you don't step on them. Then the rest of the conversation can be something like:

                            "Squad 3. Go"

                            "CO- that last order-- blah blah blah"

                            "Copy that--- good call. Go with that then. "

                            "Roger. Out."

                            The couple dozen times I've been the CO, I've found the CO often ends up having to issue orders to half or more of the squads in a very short period. When a key point is gained or lost or the enemy finally manages to get organized and break through your lines--- you're giving orders to a half dozen people.
                            Kornkob

                            I want to move to Theory. Everything works in Theory.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Communicating with and trusting your CO

                              Originally posted by TheRooster1
                              COing is hard enough without constant "upward feedback". When I SL, I rarely suggest a new order unless I see something very important. I always start my message with "This is Squad X, request permission to..."

                              I keep it short and sweet and INFREQUENT. Some autonomy is good, but if a CO has 6 squads to administer, try to give the guy a break.
                              Upward feedback is GOOD, and if you feel it would help the team you should provide it. When I CO, I don't want squad leaders to blindly pound themselves against a strong defense. I want them to tell me if I assign them a task they don't think they can achieve. I also want them to tell me if they are defending and can spare a few bodies to support another attack. I absolutely DON'T want them setting a new objective or altering my order to suit themselves.

                              I recently had a 6-man squad defending the Alleyway on Sharqi. They said nothing to me, and they disappeared from their post. The next thing I knew, a single enemy soldier capped that flag. That SL almost hit the pavement with a boot in his rear.

                              Where I do agree is that squad comms should be as clear as possible. The information shouldn't take the form of a running dialog, but rather with very clear words. All I need to know is the squad number and a short report of the situation.

                              "Commander, this is squad 1, we are up against a strong defense at the airfield and we will need additional support if you want us to take it."

                              "Roger squad 1, fall back to defense at the village while I get another squad to move up and assist."

                              ...
                              "Commander, this is squad 4, we are a very strong infantry squad and we feel that we can hold the Hotel and the Surveillance Post alone."

                              "Roger squad 4, attack the Surveillance Post and fall back to the Hotel as required."
                              Peace through fear... since 1947!

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