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  • What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

    Hey gents,

    In a vanilla BF2 game what squad-level tactics do you find that you actually use the most?

    E.g.
    • Formation movement (columns &/or wedges]
    • Fireteams [flanking, or otherwise]
    • Successive or alternate bounding
    • Buddy rushes
    • Others?


    In-house squads, uber-players, what say you?

    Cheers.

    |


    It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them;
    if double, engage them; if equal, be able to divide them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.

  • #2
    Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

    Well, squad based tactics vary by a flag-by-flag basis. Suburb flags call for grenade softening, then right or left flank with constant distraction from the obvious entry point. City flags need just a straight entrance, with a squad of 4 or more. You need to assign each squad member a place to go once inside. Say "X go sharp right around the corner, then circle around back and secure the flag. Y nade the flag, then charge straight in. Z take up position in that 50cal and cover the road. I will assist X in securing the perimiter."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

      Hmmm...

      Black_Death5 thanks for your reply, and your comments are appreciated.


      I'm a bit surprised though that after a few days and almost 70 views that there are no other comments on squad tactics regularly being practiced...

      Are there squad level tactics regularly being used in game?? Maybe not...

      I sure hope there are some dissenters to that...this is Tactical Gamer after all.

      What say you gents,

      Cheers.

      |


      It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them;
      if double, engage them; if equal, be able to divide them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

        Well, honestly, those types of things can only be done if you've got some veteran members of the squad, that know what those things are. More generally though, there are three "techniques" that immediately come to mind... that can be used regardless of the makeup of the squad (i.e. that don't require practice or prior knowledge):

        1) "Don't spawn" - If i'm SL'ing and my squad gets wiped out, instead of having everyone spawn back in, have them hold their spawn (click elsewhere on the map to deselect spawn-point). I can then move into possition more easily (requiring only one FAV, or sneaking into position on foot - as one dot to the UAV, instead of a red caterpillar) and safely (taking a transport helo without risking 6 tickets). Once I've crossed the map safely, or am in a good position as SL, cue the squad to spawn and rush the flag.

        2) "Hold your fire" - When moving as a squad, it's often best to hold-fire and try to move undetected. UAV will spoil this pretty readily, but still - while moving, you're not yet at you're objective, so try not to get mired in a big firefight... or if you DO engage along the way, be sure to disengage when the time is right... even if you leave the squad there to fight to the death, while the SL tries to move on to the objective.

        3) "Wait until we're all here" - when assaulting an objective, a lot of times people will die one at a time, and thus spawn one at a time and head back into the fight. Instead, have the squad sit-tight until you've got all SL+5 alive and ready to fight. This technique is only good for a few situations, but its good to keep in your back pocket. (i.e. doing this also gives the defending force time to respawn)

        not sure if that helps, or not, but it's three easy things to do in game that don't take a lot of explanation or require a veteran squad.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

          Originally posted by eGoatBoy
          Are there squad level tactics regularly being used in game?? Maybe not...
          Speaking from personal experience, I rarely use any sort of squad level tactics in the game (either vanilla or TacMod) aside from having person A, B and C attack from the right while the rest go left.

          The reason? No cohesion or training. Even with the regulars on the server, I never get the same squad twice in any reasonable amount of time (not even map to map). Because of that, I don't bother training people in the maneuvers that I want to do.

          If I did have a regular crew, well, I don't really have anywhere to practice stuff. Can't very well just go off and do my own training on server 1 when the CO wants something done. :P
          [squadl]
          "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

            Most of my time squad leading consists of saying "GET ON THE FLAG"... "GET ON THE FLAG"... "GET ON THE FLAG"... about half of them will be on the flag by then but the other half will only go when I go haha.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

              Squad tactics can easily be explained while on the way to the destination. They don't have to be complicated, but an important step is for everyone in your squad to know what to do. There could just be one person who doesn't know what to do that ruins the sneak attack, or could have killed that one last guy that blew the C4.

              Make everyone feel involved in your squad leading, but you make the final decisions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                Originally posted by eGoatBoy
                In a vanilla BF2 game ...
                Altough BF2 vanilla is a very fast-paced/arcade game, several squad level tactics can still be applied to it. Efficiency of all these tactics increase multiple folds when used in a proper game (ex. BF2 Tactical Mod). From my personal experience, it is almost impossible to use these without a regular group of players. That is the main reason I am a member of 1st MIP.

                Top of my head:

                - Balanced kit assignment and kit specific positions/responsibilities
                - Fire Teams
                - Formations: Column and line works best
                - Tactical movement: Successive bounding from cover to cover works best
                - Maneuvers: Suppress/Flank
                - Fire discipline and ROE
                - Radio Communication standards (instead of everyone screaming at the same time tank is there, chopper is here...)
                - Offensive principles (force ratio, intel, surprise, speed, min casualties, backup request/fall back, etc)
                - Defensive principles (interlocking fires, cover and concealment)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                  When moving into a flag, first you take a pulse as to the defense, but it has to be done quickly. Where are they, how many, etc...

                  Based on that, you call out priorities (tank first, grenades out) and what your first goal is (occupy their tank, take flag, knock out men on roof). If they have an advantage, let the guys know what the SL is doing while they attacking (SL flanking right) and continue to encourage your guys toward their objective. Keep kits balanced throughout the squad.

                  In terms of calling formations, alternate bounding, fire teams, etc... There isn't enough time to do make a lot of those calls on attack due to the reasons Tarpan lists above. Defense though you should be able to assign key points and kits effectively.

                  Lucky Shot

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                    Gentelmen,

                    Very cool...thank you kindly for your responses, and wisdom!

                    Originally posted by SmokingTarpan
                    ...I rarely use any sort of squad level tactics in the game...The reason? No cohesion or training...I never get the same squad twice...
                    This has been my experience many times over as well...

                    ...however these seem perfectly doable:
                    • Don't spawn
                    • Hold your fire
                    • Wait until we're all here
                    • Get on the flag
                    • Make sure everyone knows what to do
                    • Take a pulse then call out priorities


                    Then...
                    Originally posted by John CANavar
                    ...From my personal experience, it is almost impossible to use these without a regular group of players...
                    A fantastic list John...but I would that think a column formation should be pretty straight forward to organize in even the most rag-tag group of vagabonds, but the question becomes why?

                    What in game advantage does moving about in a column actually give you? If everyone gets from point A to B essentially as a group what does it matter that you are in a nice neat line?

                    Is there any point to the column other than making sure everyone gets there together?

                    Cheers.

                    |


                    It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them;
                    if double, engage them; if equal, be able to divide them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                      Originally posted by eGoatBoy
                      What in game advantage does moving about in a column actually give you? If everyone gets from point A to B essentially as a group what does it matter that you are in a nice neat line?
                      Well, it looks really nice from back of the column :)

                      In fact I find it very useful mainly for cohesion and direction.

                      a) Pointman (SL or a FL), can lead the team using a safe path of his/her choice. This keeps everyone in that path and minimizes detection by enemy. Best application is for places where frontal enemy confrontation is minumum. Therefore directing team from base to an operation point (a covered point at a safe distance to the target flag from which the final stage of attack will start) is much more easier using column formation.

                      b) Column formation (and others) provides cohesion and by assigning positions in the formation (medic back, assault front, etc) you can also very quickly switch to the engagement formations (like wedge). In the absence of formations, a medic may be running in the front which is the last place for him to be.

                      c) Formations also help fire discipline and situational awareness. A SL has full control over his squad when formations are used because he/she knows the place of each member.


                      Cheers mate...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                        I see a lot more buddy rushes in squads that I'm in.

                        But I know a lot of the other in-house squads use things like fire teams, Successive or alternate bounding and formation movement. I'd like to see more of these things practiced in the Irregs. On a side note anytime you get an opportunity to be in Chiang's squad you will see a lot of this.

                        [volun][drill]
                        I'm cannon fodder.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                          I have a couple of short remarks to add.

                          1) Bounding overwatch

                          I see this happen very rarely, but I try to use it always. Especially when I am a medic sticking with SL. Using bounding overwatch reduces your speed and makes you more vulnarable to artillery, still I think it's worth it.
                          An additional bonus is that you will have more sprint left to flea or engage/revive (especially important for medics.

                          I would therefore suggest to Squadleaders to use this more instead of running as fast as possible and leading. Much better to assign a pointman (makes him feel real important and appreciated too!) and sprint from cover to cover to recharge sprint + use overwatch to cover your teammates.

                          edit: Forgot to read J.c.'s second post, where I see that he uses column mostly for stealth purposes. I think you will agree that when contact is expected but not yet made, a wedge is preferred?



                          2) formations.

                          The default formation used in bf2 is surely the column since SL's tend to sprint ahead of the pack.
                          When speed is needed, this is the most proficient formation.


                          A line will be used when you have a good fireing position (e.g. a hilltop) and have engaged the enemy. Mind you in BF2 this formation IMHO should never be used more then a minute or so because you WILL get arty'd.
                          The exception to this is when the enemy has no more arty and you are not expecting attacks from jets. Then it can be held longer. With enough medics, this kind of situation can get you a lot of kills with few deaths.

                          Wedge: Here I feel I disagree with canavar, when he says "Formations: Column and line works best".

                          To my experience the default formations when moving between flags on foot should be the wedge. This mainly applies to open terrain; in CQB bounding overwatch should be used.

                          -Your medics (in the rear positions of the wedge) will be able to reach nearly every squadmember that dies. In a column distances tend to get too long.
                          -AT/assault should move in the front. SL will probably be in the central, forward position, but he will not be as vulnerable
                          -The squad can change directions easier then in a column.
                          -The squad is ALOT less vulnerable to attacks in the flank.
                          -It can adapt faster, as it will form a line perpendicular to the incoming attack wherever it may come from.
                          -Squadmembers will be covered by terrain elevation better; some members will always benefit of small elevations as they are spread out over them.
                          -Wedge is slower then column, giving everyone more sprint and most importantly: time to cover 360. I think this is very important, since moving at top speed in a column will allow almost no time to look back or to the side.

                          Especially when I am a medic, i take up a position behind and to the side of the SL, thus forming a wedge with at least the SL. I have had pretty good succes with this. When trying to do the same in CQB, I found myself using bounding overwatch.

                          Since this pretty much grew on me in game, I do not understand J. canavar when he implies the wedge is not effective in BF2 or only on rare occasions. Since this is such an interesting thread, Please elaborate on your point John.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                            Originally posted by BigGaayAl
                            Wedge: Here I feel I disagree with canavar, when he says "Formations: Column and line works best"
                            You are right, I should have explained what I meant by "works best". I meant that they are easier to perform. Different situations requires different formations and wedge has many tactical advantages as you listed Al.

                            I will think about this a bit more. What was the reason(s) I found wedge formation not working as good as others. Is it more difficult to maintain cohesion, lack of practice or game incompatibility (Ex. Wedge works great in OFP).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What movement and fire tactics do you use most?

                              I would think that fireteams and colums would be a nice big target for grenades and spray and pray tactics.

                              I think that it would actually be better in some situations if you let everyone run everywhere they wanted, that way the enemy would have no clue where the attack is coming from. It would be easy to say, full squad heading from the north, flanking to our right than having to say one guy south, 2 west, another throwing nades, another doing this......

                              Thats where the roles come in, but there isn't always time.
                              Important thing is to get in on the first or second try, and make sure you get on the flag within 15 seconds of killing the first enemy, because then they start planning their spawnbacks on that flag and they get reinforcments every 15 seconds when someone dies. Thats why wiping out the opposition around the flag, then taking the flag doesn't work well.

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