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  • Helo roles in PR

    Is there any real distinction between support and assualt roles for PR helos, in terms of the way we employ them? Should there be? This isn't a pilot-specific question. If you're trying to grab flags you might prefer the 60 minguns engaging bad guys or you might prefer the 60 pilot to be ferrying troops in. For the pilots amongst us, if you prefer using a particular type for a particular role do share your thoughts.
    BFCL TF2 league admin

  • #2
    Re: Helo roles in PR

    Originally posted by Root View Post
    Is there any real distinction between support and assualt roles for PR helos, in terms of the way we employ them? Should there be? This isn't a pilot-specific question. If you're trying to grab flags you might prefer the 60 minguns engaging bad guys or you might prefer the 60 pilot to be ferrying troops in. For the pilots amongst us, if you prefer using a particular type for a particular role do share your thoughts.
    Yes there is a difference between support and assault roles. When youre using a helicopter for assault your goal would be to fly around the flag suppressing any enemies, you dont really have a specific target to take out, its just "Hover around and shoot everything that moves".
    On the support role you would have specific targets to take out (Vehicles, RPs, other helicopters, a group of enemy infantry inside a building that has windows, etc) and you would actually have to watch your fire to avoid killing friendly units.

    The use of transport helicopters as a gunship isnt a good idea simply because they dont have the ability to attack with their front at the enemy.
    This means that to attack enemies the pilot must face the enemy with his side, this makes it far easier to fire at the helicopter in a way that would seriously injure if not kill the pilot. (Nade/rocket to the cockpit or a well placed rifle round of 2.)
    Its like using the large transport helicopters for hovering around enemy infantry to draw fire so you would assist friendly infantry by drawing fire and distracting the enemies. The tactic can be useful and has its uses, but using it also puts the entire helicopter in a far greater risk than just landing the helicopter somewhere, letting the troops that were in the helicopter get out and then return to base.

    Another use for helicopters (Mostly the chinese and MEC ones.) is calling in artillery on targets for the commander from the pilot or door gunner seat.


    Basically, attack helicopters should stick to specific target elimination and specific area infantry suppression while transport helicopters should stick to transport. The transport helicopters could be used as gunships, but its a better idea to avoid it unless youre looking for a good LZ.
    The entire concept of a transport helicopter being a gunship is just silly since a medic or 2 would revive whoever will get killed by it anyway.


    The roles of the helicopters in 0.5 as i see it :

    AH-1Z/WZ-10 (Steel Thunder, not sure if theres even another map in the rotation that has attack helicopters besides for Al Basrah and Steel Thunder) - Tank hunting and suppressing infantry around a specific flag.
    Another use that i saw on the server at one point was using the ATGMs to get rid of the enemy arty but im not sure if it would be allowed or not on the server. (A direct hit could easily blow up the arty.)

    Little Bird - Transport to areas that are too small for a black hawk to land in and H-AT launch platform.

    Armed LB - Killing snipers, scouting, harassing attack helicopters, harassing APCs/Tanks (The LB with the rockets on Steel Thunder) and suppressing infantry in small areas.

    No idea what the chinese light helicopter is called - Same as the armed LB but minus the APC/Tank part and with the use of a H-AT launch platform. Also useful as a spec ops transport.

    UH60 (Black Hawk) - Moving squads to large open areas as the damn thing is impossible fly anywhere with less than 5 meters empty at each side. Not very useful as a H-AT launch platform since its very unstable.

    MEC Helicopter (Mi-8?) - Scouting, H-AT launch platform and moving squads to just about anywhere in the map because the thing is impossible to lose control of.

    Z-8 (Chinese Helicopter) - Scouting, remote and safe arty calling (Qwai River), H-AT launch platform and transportation in a fashion similar to the MEC helicopter. It should be noted that the Z-8 feels heavier than the other helicopters in the game so you need to be slightly more careful when landing it if you want to avoid it flipping to its side.

    Merlin (Only on Ghost Train) - Crashing into trees, testing the option of dropping inf from the trees, flying around to annoy the Z-8 and somewhat of a transport. Considering that it has a total of 6 seats its not very useful for transporting squads since you have to leave someone behind.

    That LB on Jabal that always spawns in the water for some reason - Besides for entertainment, it doesnt have an actual role.

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    • #3
      Re: Helo roles in PR

      Originally posted by Amdak View Post
      UH60 (Black Hawk) - Moving squads to large open areas as the damn thing is impossible fly anywhere with less than 5 meters empty at each side. Not very useful as a H-AT launch platform since its very unstable.
      I've seen excellent pilots completely invalidate this statement. They're just harder than the other ones, I suppose. I can barely land any of them, so don't ask me how it works.
      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
      I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
      Feel free to quote me. ~

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      • #4
        Re: Helo roles in PR

        Little Bird - Transport to areas that are too small for a black hawk to land in and H-AT launch platform.
        I just died a little as I read that. I'm not sure what makes people thing that that is a good idea.

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        • #5
          Re: Helo roles in PR

          The UH60 should not be used as a gunship as it's hard as heck to hit anything smaller than a SUV while flying and gunning. Also, it just is too slow to get stopped for a steady firing position and also too slow to get moving again, making it prime for AA (missiles or guns).

          The LB can be more of a harasser element allowing troops to do more. The BH on the other hand should be for transporting/resupply/extraction.

          In the pursuit of... something.

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          • #6
            Re: Helo roles in PR

            I love when the choppers go buzzing by and someone slaps up a rocket and you see a bunch of bodies come tumbling out. After which, if it is still airborne, the chopper goes back for repairs and another full load of meat.
            sigpic
            Don't let the bastards grind you down!

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            • #7
              Re: Helo roles in PR

              Steak's Medium rare for me Boobers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Helo roles in PR

                You fly em, we'll fry em! ;) Now theres a thought - flame throwers :O
                sigpic
                Don't let the bastards grind you down!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Helo roles in PR

                  It all depends on the situation IMO.

                  The Uh-60 is worthless for covering fire, with every tom, dick and harry being AT to snipe infantry. You can give wonderful covering fire, assuming of course there are no At's running around, but since that never happens, it's worthless for anything other then say keeping roof's clear on Basrah and ferrying troops.

                  As for the Ah-60, it can fill the support role wonderfully, assuming the pilot and gunner are a nice cohesive unit, and infantry on the ground marks target's. The A-bird is often mis-used and wasted. The A-bird is nothing more then a tank with a propeller that can 1-hit enemy armor with a good gunner. It should stay back out of direct LOS and use friendly troops ability to "paint" targets on your mini-map to take them out. Everytime I see the A-bird "make a pass" I shudder in disgust.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Helo roles in PR

                    The LB is a great mobile AT platform, the trouble is finding a good pilot and better HAT man since. Also, you can insert the HAT anywhere with the LB, so if you're not confident in shooting from the sky, just chase tanks and drop off just out of the LOS so your man can hoof it, take the shot, and get extract so he can rtb for ammo
                    |TG|Switch

                    Better known as:
                    That noob who crashed the chopper.
                    That noob who ran over the mine.
                    That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                    That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Helo roles in PR

                      Originally posted by Morganan View Post
                      It all depends on the situation IMO.

                      The Uh-60 is worthless for covering fire, with every tom, dick and harry being AT to snipe infantry. You can give wonderful covering fire, assuming of course there are no At's running around, but since that never happens, it's worthless for anything other then say keeping roof's clear on Basrah and ferrying troops.

                      As for the Ah-60, it can fill the support role wonderfully, assuming the pilot and gunner are a nice cohesive unit, and infantry on the ground marks target's. The A-bird is often mis-used and wasted. The A-bird is nothing more then a tank with a propeller that can 1-hit enemy armor with a good gunner. It should stay back out of direct LOS and use friendly troops ability to "paint" targets on your mini-map to take them out. Everytime I see the A-bird "make a pass" I shudder in disgust.
                      I think you mean the AH-1 and your points are valid, especially about it not needing to fly right up to the target. That said, "support" is ferrying troops around (I suppose you could include CSAR and ammo supply) and "assault" is blowing stuff up / killing people. Using the AH-1 as a troop transport would be unproductive. My OP was intentionally a bit vague; if I posted exactly what I'm looking for in this thread I'm confident the responses would be hugely skewed in a particular direction and I really want to avoid that.
                      BFCL TF2 league admin

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                      • #12
                        Re: Helo roles in PR

                        I thought, technically, you shouldn't be able to fire AT from a LB what with the blowback and all.. but it's not currently workin that way.
                        "It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

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                        • #13
                          Re: Helo roles in PR

                          I'm pretty sure using the LB as a HAT platform is against the rules.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Helo roles in PR

                            Originally posted by Root View Post
                            I think you mean the AH-1 and your points are valid, especially about it not needing to fly right up to the target. That said, "support" is ferrying troops around (I suppose you could include CSAR and ammo supply) and "assault" is blowing stuff up / killing people. Using the AH-1 as a troop transport would be unproductive. My OP was intentionally a bit vague; if I posted exactly what I'm looking for in this thread I'm confident the responses would be hugely skewed in a particular direction and I really want to avoid that.
                            You are correct, I mis-worded my statements. You use the attack helo to support infantry by giving it a means of "indirect fire" to remove enemy armor. I always attribute the word "assault" as something men with guns do. A helicopter assault is simply a means of describing the method of transport for those men with guns. Support is a term I use to describe anyone not in the "men with guns" group. I will attempt to use it properly in the future.

                            But yes, with the current state of the game, there is no real use for the transport helo's other then playing taxi-cab. Maybe in .6 this will change with limiting the LAT kits, but in the comparison between the chain guns and a soldier with a LAT, the chain guns aren't anywhere near as effective vs. infantry as the LAT is vs. the bird.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Helo roles in PR

                              If at any point the black hawk is being used as an effective weapons platform, mini guns included, the opposing team is just terrible.

                              The miniguns are the only nerfed weapon in PR. That said, theres not much to be afraid of in returning fire at a BH. For the chopper to be accurate the pilot must be going pretty slow. As long as he's not cruising at UFO speed (which BH's love to do) a LAT round is an easy hit. A HAT round is an impossible miss.

                              Black hawks should be afraid to go slow. At least in .5 There may be a little bit more saftey for them when LAT is also restricted.
                              |TG|Switch

                              Better known as:
                              That noob who crashed the chopper.
                              That noob who ran over the mine.
                              That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                              That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                              Comment

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