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Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

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  • Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

    Introduction and problem definition:

    This idea started when I read somewhere that doctrine says that a suppressive fire element should outnumber the assaulting element at least 2 to 1, preferably 3 to 1.

    When trying to implement suppression, and flanking with the MIP fireteams, often the suppressive fire element (alpha or bravo, each 3ppl) would have a member picked of quickly. The medic would react, and suppression was out of the question.


    Solution:

    The doctrine and in-game experience got me thinking, and I adapted the fireteam-strat. I believe in the last of his BF2 days, John also tried to do this, but without me noticing it, without explaining it.

    I'm making this post, so that anyone who plays in my squad understands what my goal is when designating kits and positions. It may help people to better know what is expected of them. Off course I would love it if other squads used this stuff, be sure to invite me to that squad!


    Implementation:

    (1):Movement
    The first pic is the traditional column formation the MIP would use when when there is cover and concealment around, like a forest. All the following is not suited for large open expanses (e.g. most of Kashan - better to get a jeep) or dense urban terrain (better to use 3 man teams using overwatch. A great map for this stuff is ghost train.

    The kit layout is also in the picture.
    The most important issues:
    -A2 is support gunner, he shouldn't be on point.
    -B2 has a good assault kit, and Fireteamleader when bravo is orderedto do something. "Bravo do X" means Bravo 2 takes control and leads bravo. "Bravo WE are doing X" means SL will keep control of bravo. "Bravo on me" is best added in this case to avoid confusion.
    -Contrary to MIP tactics, B3 can have another kit, as the assault
    element will not have the time to heal during the attack anyway.




    (2):Contact
    Now in the second pic, the new thing (vs mip) is that the SL attaches on the A3 medic's side to Alpha, thus changing the manpower ratio of suppression and assault elements from 1/1 to 2/1, reaching the minimum specified by military doctrine.
    This can be done quite quickly under fire, as the SL just has to run up a little, and order Bravo to flank (right, left, or though a specific location).



    Evaluation:
    So far I've had quite positive results trying this, and I am getting convinced it is quite useful. It is however rare to get a squad that is up to this kind of game-play.
    You need a good A1, a decent A2 and a very good B2. Bravo 2 is the main killer here, and should be the kind of player that can kill a whole squad quickly when he has the element of surprise. He should also react very quickly, and have the discipline to disengage so that he can flank the enemy, even if it takes a while.


    Problem to resolve:
    One BIG problem I have is how to adapt this set-up for use of AT/Heavy-at. If I give it to Bravo, I have no assault element. I can't give A1 a pistol on point, I need A2 saw and A3.
    So far I've been giving A1 light AT, and have even been taking the HAT myself if the situation allows it (e.g. a good rp/bunker near). Alternatively I have been splitting of bravo , giving them a light-AT and a HAT.


    **********
    Let's revive the TACTICALgamer TACTICs forum a bit guys :P, so post any remarks you have, and especially any suggestions you may have on how to reliably organise AT capability in this set-up.
    **********

  • #2
    Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

    I'm up for this. Suppose we could try this on a password night if we get enough interest?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

      Count me in too. This is a very similar tactic to how raids are really done. Well in the CF anyhow. Great work on the examples.

      I'm too new here to have a handle on when you get together to make tactics like this happen so just let me know when you would like to try it and I will do my best to join in.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

        Well I use this system when I have the energy/the squad.In general, there is indeed more chance of this happening on a pw night. Reminding me in game is good too, as It sure helps to know if someone is interested at that time to use fire-teams.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

          This must be a bait to bring me back to from my virtual grave. You heretic, how dare you criticise MIP fire team tactics? :)

          Great points Al. What you described is very similar to Infantry type II operation of fire teams in MIP SOPs (see the thread in PR tactics category).

          I would suggest to let B2 go left, B3 go right to flank enemy from both sides. Just in case, I would keep SL at the back to provide spawn point close to suppression element as they lose manpower. Depending on the case, medic may be relieved from his medical duties and assigned to 100% combat since healing takes a long time and means two guns are out of suppression/distraction element.

          With Bravo going for two directions, flanking manpower is halved but chances of getting enemy by surprise doubles. Since flanking is about catching enemy by surprise and even a single man can wipe out a whole squad like that, I guess double-flank may have more success rate on the battlefield.
          Last edited by John CANavar; 09-26-2007, 04:18 PM. Reason: B2 left, B3 right since it is easier based on their pos. in default formation (wedge)

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          • #6
            Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

            Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
            Problem to resolve:
            One BIG problem I have is how to adapt this set-up for use of AT/Heavy-at. If I give it to Bravo, I have no assault element. I can't give A1 a pistol on point, I need A2 saw and A3.
            So far I've been giving A1 light AT, and have even been taking the HAT myself if the situation allows it (e.g. a good rp/bunker near). Alternatively I have been splitting of bravo , giving them a light-AT and a HAT.
            I don't think there's an answer to this one Al, limitations of the PR mod. As a side, we don't have these issues in Armed Assault!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

              I'm down with fireteams, and love working with the MIP on this type of thing, but getting it to work in-game or adapting it to the situation is the challenge. Would love to be in on this, but I haven't played PR in a long time, not since they made it as complicated as they did. If it's more complicated to play the game--let alone use tactics-- than make a martini, I'm not interested.
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              • #8
                Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

                Damn...sounds great...count me in! :D Reminds me of a conversation I had with Xcannon earlier in the week. I'd be pushing 6MD in this direction if we had the numbers to field a full squad on a regular basis. Fireteams are pretty basic and this tactic wouldn't be too tough to implement. I just wouldn't want to do it with a fresh squad every round...too much work. ;)

                My advice would be to ditch B3 as a medic and put in a permanent LAT/HAT person there. I think the medic is of marginal use since as you mentioned you want the assault element hitting hard and fast. In PR, medics and fast don't go together well unlike say POE or regular BF2. ;) Plus putting the AT in the flanking element could give you a better shot at the target plus allow LAT use against clustered infantry (as per our discussions in the PR forum).

                Bernout

                |TG-MD6|

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                • #9
                  Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

                  I like your Idea Bernout. 2 medics may indeed be overkill on PR, and it definitely is so in open maps. Also B1 should often attach to Alpha thus getting the SL close to a medic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

                    hmm interesting...

                    How about reversing the roles of your fire team/flanking element?

                    i.e.

                    have B2 with the HAT, A1 becomes assault element leader, have A2 attach to Bravo for supressive power of SAW, A1 and A3 becomes flanking element.

                    This way both elements retain a medic, even if heal is slow, revive and smoke can be a valuable asset, even more so depending on your distance from the enemy and how long it would take them to sucessfully rush the SL's position(i.e. if the flanking element is wiped out, could the enemy overpower the SL's position before the 2 alpha members have time to spawn back in and re-enforce the position).
                    It matters not what letters or numbers come before my name, I'll always be 1stMIP.

                    sigpic

                    "It is all about being a teamplayer. Give a kitchen sink to a teamplayer and he'll find a way to support his squad with it."
                    - John_CANavar (Marshall & Founder of the 1st Mechanized Infantry Platoon)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

                      Well,you wouldn't have time to pull out the medic bag. Like said before,you have tons of smoke,a shock paddle,and bandaids for quick healing on the SAW (SAW and SL should be primary concerns).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

                        I like the idea of fire teams on kashan especially inside the bunker area. Starting on the USMC side on the East entrance putting down rallies and then sweeping through with a 2 by 2 man cover formation, maybe even having help from a second squad in the back.

                        Setting up points where, support gunners are in place; covering fire is laid down, men move, looking around the area, then the team re groups etc.....I wish i could draw exactly how it would look but I like your suggestions Al, I would really like to try them out on the bunker areas with you the next time, or on EJOD. The thing is, I kind of wish there wouldn't be a tank nearby to mow us all down.
                        Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                        Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                        Level I HazMat Technician
                        NYS EMT-B
                        Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Join the experiment: MIP tactics adapted

                          That would be kashan 16 then Randy, its just the bunker area now I think


                          If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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