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  • #46
    I really do hope that in future updates they implement throwing strength behind grenade tosses.
    1. Quick Click - Weak
    2. 3 second duration click - Medium
    3. 5 second duration click - Long

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    • #47
      If you're peeking a corner in close proximity don't do it the same way you would at medium range, sweep round it if the space/situation allows. You've already shown your hand, get on target and engage the threats to that entrance and push in, this can allow you to get another squad mate into the space and another gun in the fight.

      By contrast medium range peeking allows you to peek, shoot and tuck back round your corner. You're not going to just push round as you've got too much ground to cover to your objective area.

      Peeking and tucking back in without killing any threats in close range essentially blocks that entrance as they now know where you are. They will lock down that entrance and lane and toss grenades. If you are tucked in on the corner you will eat those grenades. Furthermore you'll probably block a teammate's line of sight to the target as you pull back. He won't be able to shoot in case of blue on blue whereas the enemy can just hose the area and potentially get a 'twofer'. If you're a breacher, be aggressive.



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      • #48
        If your pushing into say a T-shaped compound (in which the vertical part of the T shape is the entrance) it can be very effective if you have a man hold the door facing each way after they have peeked and engaged the direct threat. The holding players should then continue to engage threats as they present themselves. The next men into the space should roll off their shoulders and flow through to the top of the T and move to the corners.

        I've found this the most effective way to clear the T shaped compounds where you have to push into to clear. Far better than everyone just sprinting in and then stopping to engage. Firing supports the movement deeper into the space.
        Last edited by Wicks; 03-27-2017, 06:42 AM.


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        • #49
          A great way I have used to breach a compound that has high walls. If you are us you can pull the hummer up beside it. And all the squad can jump the wall. Used this other day. Took the enemy from surprise.

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          • #50
            They just need grappling hooks like pr :D

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            • #51
              That would be nice! ^^

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              • #52
                If you're breaching on a map like Chora many of the compounds have a similar layout, specifically the T-shape as mentioned before.

                So if your breaching through the main entrance which is South for example, then it's extremely beneficial to employ some form of distraction/diversion adjacent to the breach. A saw gunner opening up on the West side will usually get people's attention in conjunction with a frag from that location. Hell, throw two. The first should be aimed to land just inside the compound's West wall after the saw gunner opens up. You'll be surprised how many defenders will rush to the sound of automatic fire, that follow up grenade will greet them. This should also get the attention of anyone 'camping' the Southern entrance you intend to breach through. It takes quite a lot of concentration to retain a sight picture on an empty doorway when an AR is going full tilt and a grenade has just gone off to your right side.

                The second frag can be tossed overhand into the central area. This hopefully inflicts casualties in the area you intend to move into and at the very least will kick up a ton of dust and disperse defenders. It's really critical that you push in through the breach as soon as the shrapnel from the frag stops pinging about you want to be in there right off the back off the explosion as best you can.

                Get in there, keep out of each others line of fire and push hard. Do not hesitate or block anyone's path. Far better you take a couple down and get knocked down then start running about blocking your team mate's line of fire. If you stay out of the way and just drop what is in front of you everyone else can do the same and you have a much higher chance of success. Push in, get out of the fatal funnel, split and clear. Talk to your squad mates on local, sort out who's going where, set your direction of movement and stick to it, push to your corner and drop em as you see em. Do your job, deal with your threats, don't try and scan the whole area. The more single minded each individual component of the Squad is, the more focused each Squad member is on 'their' task, the more efficient the Squad is as a whole. The less things you try to deal with simultaneously the faster you accomplish individual tasks. Five breachers dropping two targets maximum is a whole enemy Squad plus 1.

                Don't sprint about.....

                - You can't shoot when sprinting
                - You aren't shooting when your sprinting
                - If you ain't shooting your enemy can shoot you in a nice relaxed manner
                - You don't see targets as well when you are sprinting
                - You are getting in everyone's way, faster
                - Nothing moves faster than a bullet, move smoothly, get your sight picture with a nice stable platform and drop em


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                • #53
                  Excellent points Wicks ! More people should think like you!

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                  • #54
                    I kind of skimmed through a lot of this because I'm coming into it late but I'll throw in my two cents. A few things I have learned from clearing rooms and bounding up to a obj is violence of action. That includes everything from having a SBF (support by fire) set up and masking your movements with smokes will make all the difference.

                    Now usually when you would set up a SBF you would use a weapons squad so you had your 240s to suppress the enemy while you bounded up. But seeing as squad doesn't have 240s yet it makes it a bit more difficult to accomplish. But what you do have is the saw which comes with enough ammo and has a high ROF. The only problem I see with it is that when people pick the saw they don't use it for the purpose that it is made for which is to suppress. What I see more of is people using it like they would in call of duty or battlefield which I mean it will be used like that at times when it comes to room clearing or just coming into contact and engaging the enemy. It does need to be used more towards its purpose more for when you are taking your squad to assault an obj. Basically what I am getting at is if you have a guy who picked the saw emplace then in a spot that will give them a good field of view of the obj and also the ability to engage and suppress targets while your squad bounds up.

                    On to room clearing, I'll go into a little bit of detail but some points I would like to cover is button hooking, stacking, hi lows, malfunctions or in this case reloading and the fatal funnel. So I have always been told there are two ways to enter a room button hooking and path of least resistance (which I won't really cover due to me being lazy and not liking it). Now when it comes to button hooking the number one man will always button hook and this will be better showed in the picture.

                    (Please ignore the airsoftwarrior.net in the bottom right because when blue enters he will clear is corner before turning to face the rest of the room) So the number one man is the red dot and the the number two man is the blue dot. If the number one man is on the left side of the door then he will immediately turn left when he enters the room and the same would go if we was on the right side of the door. Now what makes this sexy to me is that as red is entering blue is right on his ass and will have is rifle over reds shoulder which in turn puts to barrels in the room at once this is why to me button hooking would be a preferable method when it comes to entering a room. Now I feel like stacking is a little pointless to try and do in squad only because if you were to be moving up to a building to clear and had everyone in formation as you were moving up it wouldn't be hard for one guy to smoke your whole squad or at least half of you. But seeing as all doors are open in squad then all you should have to do is say open door, stack on me and then the rest of the squad should get in some kind of stack while moving up to the building and then flow in. But besides that I also feel like you will never have all of your squad mates near you to attempt that but it all depends on the situation at hand. Now moving on to hi lows which is too easy all you really need is some communication between the two doing it and that is simples as saying "hey frank you go low I'll go hi" and bam you can hi low a corner. For moving down a hallway I'd rather do a rolling T which I'll go into a little bit if requested. When it comes to reloading you should always have a fresh mag in before entering a room but if you don't and you end up having to reload while engaging immediately take a knee so if you have your buddy behind you he can engage whoever you were shooting at. Now on to the last part of this which is the fatal funnel. Now the fatal funnel would be doorways and windows and 9/10 times if you stop in the doorway and there is an enemy inside the room you will be shot and possibly get your buddy behind you shot as well. The best thing you can do is to commit to what you are doing and enter the room. Which means you will probably get shot if the dude is camping in a corner but that gives your buddies a chance to get in the room as well and down him. This also goes into play when standing in a doorway and window because you have now exposed yourself openly to everything outside of that building and could have a guy waiting for you to stand in front of that window to shoot you. This kind of veered off from the whole thing about violence of action so basically if you incorporate that violence of action aspect you should be able to overwhelm the enemy and take the obj.


                    Hopefully you guys find this useful!
                    Last edited by Wook1e; 06-26-2017, 10:56 PM.

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                    • #55
                      ^^^ Committing through the fatal funnel seems to be the hardest thing for people to do. I loved being a breacher because I was never the first one in. When we would sweep the remaining rooms then I'd fall back into a rotation of stack order so a guy didn't get burned out always being number 1. Nothing like that adrenaline rush busting in a door and you have absolutely no idea what's on the other side. That is why they always say, go opposite of the man in front of you! We know what most rooms look like or should look like inside of the game, IRL is much different.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Gaunt View Post
                        ^^^ Committing through the fatal funnel seems to be the hardest thing for people to do. I loved being a breacher because I was never the first one in. When we would sweep the remaining rooms then I'd fall back into a rotation of stack order so a guy didn't get burned out always being number 1. Nothing like that adrenaline rush busting in a door and you have absolutely no idea what's on the other side. That is why they always say, go opposite of the man in front of you! We know what most rooms look like or should look like inside of the game, IRL is much different.
                        I couldn't agree more! What we will do a lot in training is when the number one man freezes in the door he will become a casualty so we can get that whole thing about him freezing in the doorway out of his head. But we will do the same when it comes to clearing more than one room and change up the the stack while flowing into the next room. Me being an AR means I'm usually pulling rear security and not doing much which sucks lol. But I agree by now we should have an idea of what most rooms look like in the game.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                        • #57
                          Both Deep Corner and Limited Pen have their time and place. Its been interesting doing these things for realsies and watching the methods and TTPs evolve. Back at the start of OIF I, a lot of the whole room clearing stuff came straight out of Police SWAT manuals because they had the expertise. Sure, some Green suit specialist units had their own methods, but Big Army at large learned SWAT, and that was break down the door and all go RAAAAAWR into the corners (points of dominance). Makes sense I guess if you are facing at most one or two violent criminals inside a single room with a pistol or maybe a semi auto rifle. Point being they were for the most part not facing fanatical, armed to the teeth and ready to die in place bad guys who, believe it or not were not completely tactically inept, like those we found in Fallujah.
                          .
                          As the wars evolved, so did the tactics and we, the U.S. dot mils began to develop better ways to do these things, in addition to some cross pollination of ideas with our allies. Along the way, Slow Pie or Limited Pen came on the scene and a lot of the beardy guy units decided it was the new cool. From there it has trickled down to Big Army as well. In an act of supreme irony, "the circle is now complete... when I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master." Civilian SWAT has been picking up tips from the .mil folks on how to slow roll the breaches more and more. Now who has more experience ha!

                          So why type all this? Easy... having done this stuff once or twice, both in training and for realsies, I have come to the conclusion that knowing both is imperative and both have their utility. The question to ask when deciding/planning... Am I under immediate or likely external fire/threat at the point of entry?

                          If no, then go Slow Pie or Limited Pen. Take your time and do it safe. I can think of an initial hit or single target in a permissive (or initially unsuspecting) target area. Hell, even in a high intensity fight while inside the (dubious) safety of a building where you are not exposed to many angles of fire, use it, time permitting.

                          If the answer is yes, then Deep Corner domination. In that situation, it is imperative to get off the street, out of the hallway whatever. The cool guy kicking in doors and going in hard is money when things have already gone loud or you are in a non permissive environment and exposed to fire. Say for instance you are caught out on a street in down town Fallujah and have to occupy a building by force to get some cover for your casualties fast... bust it with Deep Corners, sure.

                          In game terms, as there are no civilians to worry about, there is no reason why the first man in the door shouldn't be named Mr. Grenade. Room clearing is sexy and all that, I got it... people like to do sexy. Its Squad, not real life though... so use a rocket, 40mm or M67 to politely knock and then go. If you die inside the door, you didn't put enough HE in there then. This is to say nothing of the chaos that is a pubbie squad who all want to Rambo a door individually all the while letting the bad guy in the room giggle as he reloads between murderizing idiots.

                          Wookie... welcome back to the land of the internet. I hope live fire was a... (wait for it...) ... BLAST.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Wicks View Post
                            You'll be surprised how many defenders will rush to the sound of automatic fire, that follow up grenade will greet them.
                            So true this. I very often use this kind of diversion on assault. Both as an individual or as a whole squad.

                            Usually the reason is that I have seen a group of friendlies moving up on the enemy flank. So I'll just start firing whatever I have over the heads of the enemy. Luring them in, and disguising the sound of the flank attack.

                            But boy do i get some weird looks from people when I do that :D.

                            I also often use it with a whole squad. E.g. We might have been unsuccessfully attacked a few times, and then when you see another squad coming up behind em... If you make a lot of noise in that situation, the friendly squad is almost certain to complete the assault successfully.

                            THen when Im SL and defending... I think of the good old days in the MIP as I cannot possibly seem to stop my squad from all running to the same side and looking the same way.

                            This is a huge flaw in the tactics of 90% of squad players. So there is a huge opportunity to take advantage of this flaw.

                            +The same can also be done with any vehicle mounted weapon from long range. If you see a squad approaching from the other side, just shooting a 30mil over the enemies' heads can help the assaulting squad quite a bit, even though you aren't hitting or killing anything.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Celt
                              Both Deep Corner and Limited Pen have their time and place. Its been interesting doing these things for realsies and watching the methods and TTPs evolve. Back at the start of OIF I, a lot of the whole room clearing stuff came straight out of Police SWAT manuals because they had the expertise. Sure, some Green suit specialist units had their own methods, but Big Army at large learned SWAT, and that was break down the door and all go RAAAAAWR into the corners (points of dominance). Makes sense I guess if you are facing at most one or two violent criminals inside a single room with a pistol or maybe a semi auto rifle. Point being they were for the most part not facing fanatical, armed to the teeth and ready to die in place bad guys who, believe it or not were not completely tactically inept, like those we found in Fallujah.
                              .
                              As the wars evolved, so did the tactics and we, the U.S. dot mils began to develop better ways to do these things, in addition to some cross pollination of ideas with our allies. Along the way, Slow Pie or Limited Pen came on the scene and a lot of the beardy guy units decided it was the new cool. From there it has trickled down to Big Army as well. In an act of supreme irony, "the circle is now complete... when I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master." Civilian SWAT has been picking up tips from the .mil folks on how to slow roll the breaches more and more. Now who has more experience ha!

                              So why type all this? Easy... having done this stuff once or twice, both in training and for realsies, I have come to the conclusion that knowing both is imperative and both have their utility. The question to ask when deciding/planning... Am I under immediate or likely external fire/threat at the point of entry?

                              If no, then go Slow Pie or Limited Pen. Take your time and do it safe. I can think of an initial hit or single target in a permissive (or initially unsuspecting) target area. Hell, even in a high intensity fight while inside the (dubious) safety of a building where you are not exposed to many angles of fire, use it, time permitting.

                              If the answer is yes, then Deep Corner domination. In that situation, it is imperative to get off the street, out of the hallway whatever. The cool guy kicking in doors and going in hard is money when things have already gone loud or you are in a non permissive environment and exposed to fire. Say for instance you are caught out on a street in down town Fallujah and have to occupy a building by force to get some cover for your casualties fast... bust it with Deep Corners, sure.

                              In game terms, as there are no civilians to worry about, there is no reason why the first man in the door shouldn't be named Mr. Grenade. Room clearing is sexy and all that, I got it... people like to do sexy. Its Squad, not real life though... so use a rocket, 40mm or M67 to politely knock and then go. If you die inside the door, you didn't put enough HE in there then. This is to say nothing of the chaos that is a pubbie squad who all want to Rambo a door individually all the while letting the bad guy in the room giggle as he reloads between murderizing idiots.

                              Wookie... welcome back to the land of the internet. I hope live fire was a... (wait for it...) ... BLAST.
                              Glad to be back! I think BOOM would be the word your looking for haha but it was definitely a good time and experience as always! But on top of that those are some good points!


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Continued experimentation in this area has led me to see a few patterns with regards to player behaviour, both breacher and defender, what can work in which situation etc.

                                Firstly, 'breaching and clearing' doesn't have to refer to small buildings/compounds. Much of the tactics discussed so far can be applied to larger compounds/areas. Essentially what we're talking about is an 'assault', breaching is to some degree merely a variant of assault where the enemy is dug in, usually in a building or enclosed structure.

                                Limited penetration/peeking and not pushing in immediately as opposed to rolling through the entrance can be particularly effective when used in conjuction. If you have two open breach points then peeking one and pushing the other can be really devastating.

                                An example would be a medium sized compound on Chora or similar.

                                Another role that can support any assault is someone with optics assuming an overwatch position to safeguard the assaulters approach to the objective. He should be looking for 'sentries', ie enemy occupying rooftop positions most likely to have line of sight on your assaulters. Ideally he will hold fire until just prior to the assault unless someone on the rooftops looks like he has eyes on the assault.

                                Breachers approach unseen from East, 'peeker' from the West.

                                So the assault can be launched by pre-fragging the compound, peeking one entrance and then pushing in from the other. The peeker should be looking to take out the first responders to the breachers (and any runners stirred up by the frags) to enable them to get inside the door/entrance. One should facilitate the other. The breachers will draw attention so the peeker can then hit the first responders in the back. Your overwatch engages any rooftop threats then acts as perimeter security to deal with the inevitable response.

                                Perimeter security can be really key to prosecuting an assault. Last thing you need is someone shooting you in the back when you are 100% focused on what's in front of you. It also helps in holding the objective once secure. The enemy you kill will come right back at you from their RP and or nearest FOB.

                                I see far too many people turtling inside compounds with no effective perimeter beyond the four walls that surround them. No effective eyes out beyond the walls, no external security, just begging to be overrun themselves. Still defending is for another discussion.


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