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I'm reasonably confident fully-automatic fire is useless.

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  • I'm reasonably confident fully-automatic fire is useless.

    I used to tell people to run full-auto on their rifles always. It stands to reason - if the enemy has the drop on you, they're likely close, and you need to spam rounds at them ASAP to suppress, wound, or make them think twice. If you have the advantage on the enemy, you can take your time and switch to semi-auto and engage comfortably.

    But in the last few rounds of Squad, I've started to think different. There's just been far, far too many situations where I've bursted 3 rounds from 10-20m at a fella, and he shot two semi-auto rounds and down I went. In that time, I got two aim-down-sights bursts at him, and he just took his time, didn't panic, and dropped me.

    So I switched to semi-auto on Fool's Road. Came across a 5-man FOB (from above, they were in a valley), and tap-tap-tap-ed them all to death. I know for a FACT that I would have ran out of ammo far, far before killing them all had I used 2-3 round bursts. Distance was maybe 20 meters, but closer to 10.

    Then I ran up on Chora's infamous Market Hub. My squad assaulted, and I just kept suppressing the roof. They had a Marksman up there, and I just kept tap-tap-tap-ing above their heads. I wounded a couple of them, but I'm pretty sure I kept at least 3 guys occupied, probably more.

    I'm torn between "fully-auto is fit for 5% of engagements and basically useless" and "semi-auto fire is so damn good, it's going to be nerfed with realistic wounding mechanics etc".

    What do ya'll think? Am I just terrible at recoil compensation? What's your default weapon fire selection?

  • #2
    Re: I'm reasonably confident fully-automatic fire is useless.

    Yeah, I'm trying to figure out where the "sweet spot" between fire modes is. One influence for me personally is what role I'm playing and what I'm trying to achieve. Also, in my head I've convinced myself that the Soviet weapons have a large cone-of-fire, so I am mostly on full-auto and try to be within arms length of an enemy before engaging him.

    If I'm medic I'm usually full auto and watching the squad's six. If I see something pretty far away I just call it out and we decide how to handle it. But if someone sneaks up on us or a squad member is down I'm confident any firefight will be CQB and over quickly, so full auto it is for me. Honestly, I don't take "pot shots" as medic so I rarely go semi-auto. My mindset is to observe and report, keep people up, and only get in a firefight if it can't be avoided.

    As Grenadier I will usually be full-auto while I'm actively firing grenades, in the event of unexpected and sudden CQB, but switch up as needed.

    Squad leading I'm usually semi-auto and try to call out targets so several squad members can engage a target simultaneously. Rarely go full-auto as SL.

    LMG is interesting because this it probably the biggest difference between the factions. The M249 is great for putting lots of accurate rounds downrange and pinning enemies if not downright killing them yourself. The RPK doesn't work as well in that regard, but I actually like it in semi-auto mode and being able to fire for longer without reloading.

    Originally posted by Zhohar View Post
    "semi-auto fire is so damn good, it's going to be nerfed with realistic wounding mechanics etc".
    I honestly feel this way about the M249. It had pretty horrible recoil early in Alpha, and also open sights; almost strictly a CQB weapon. Now it almost feels like you're pointing a laser and anything that crosses the beam gets cut in half...


    • #3
      Re: I'm reasonably confident fully-automatic fire is useless.

      Before one of the rounds after the server had crashed, myself and a few others were sitting in the main base practicing full auto recoil compensation. I found that I was terrible at it. During gameplay I'm always in semi-auto. Whether it's 100m or 2m I can ADS and take a few shots quick enough to hit my target accurately as opposed to spraying half a mag and hitting the target the same number of times.

      It's easier for me to take my time, shoot, pause, and shoot again with fairly low recoil in semi-auto than it is to hold the trigger and pull the mouse down hard to try to compensate for the recoil in full auto.
      Former Irregular, Former member of TG 3rd Special Forces Detachment

      Please don't call me Florence.


      • #4
        Re: I'm reasonably confident fully-automatic fire is useless.

        Made a similar thread previously here.

        Copy and paste of my initial comments.

        For me on the AR front at least it's weapon and situation dependent. If I'm carrying an M4 I pretty much always stick to single shot. I prefer the precision, even at close range and struggle with the high rpm for numerous reasons. At medium range with a red dot I have a pretty accurate weapon and full auto, even in an effort to suppress is a complete waste of time and ammunition. At close range I still choose single shot, unless I am barrel up my opponents nostril range, simply because the M4's vertical recoil and rpm means you're wasting the majority of your rounds. This is important to me because it means I'm reloading inefficiently and often at the worse possible times. Furthermore I have little to no positive control of my rounds when I am engaging, full auto is very much the 'nuke' button of cqb. If I'm working an objective in close proximity to my squad mates I'm a danger to them on full auto and a gun out of the fight when I am reloading early due to the wild mag dump.

        No, for me, even CQB requires single shot. It takes time and practice to get fast enough and accurate enough and full auto is definitely easier as far as getting the first kill but that's where the road runs out tactically. It's a very 'arcadey' tactic. Assault rifles in the military aren't designed for full auto by default. It makes little sense tactically and no sense accuracy or safety wise. So if I'm clearing a compound I try to move slow and steady with my sights up, minimizing my exposure to the various angles of threat and looking to basically dump 3-4 accurate shots centre mass to my targets as they perhaps charge or blaze away full auto. This way I not only have the upmost accuracy I can get but I minimize the risk of friendly fire and I stay 'gun up' longer. If you work it and hit your shots that's a whole squad in one magazine potentially (or there abouts). Not saying that's a reasonable expectation, merely pointing out that is your potential gun up time where you can't be caught with your pants down mid reload. That's all time you are a threat to the enemy and able to cover your squad mates. Now of course there will be circumstances where dumping your magazine is appropriate, even in close range, to cover a squad/team mate or suppress the enemy. That's to be expected. However even then rapid single fire remains desirable as you are able to suppress with greater accuracy/threat to enemy life and for an extended duration. As opposed to the scream "Covering fire BRRRRRRRRRR, oops now we're both reloading" scenario.

        Conversely the AK variants with their slower ROF and lack of optics do in fact lend themselves to manually controlled full auto (short bursts) in close quarters. The much slower rof means you aren't going to be pointing at the sky after a bit of heavy trigger, are much more able to control both the accuracy/grouping of your shots and manage your ammo. The controllability also means you are less of a liability to squad/team members. I am more than happy to use short 4-5 shot burst with the AK's in close to medium as they are pretty effective and the less than stellar iron sights (particularly the front posts) make rapid target acquisition a bit more of a challenge. Medium range its fine for single shot but at close/medium I tend to get more success using the AK's in a much more reactive point/shoot manner.
        Basically I'll use a burst of full auto in really close quarters, like in a building, if I enter and know it's occupied. I've practiced a lot with the M4 in particular, making use of the range etc, as it has fairly significant vertical recoil. I can control it at short range but you really have to keep the burst short and wrestle with it. That's not a bad thing as the other main weakness of full auto is it accelerating the timeline of your reloads. I can count my rounds out easily in single shot with a decent margin of error. Much harder to do that when the bloods pumping and your going full cowboy on the trigger.

        Like most techniques it's definitely a skill that can be polished to a level that is more effective and tactical than simply laying on the trigger. Sadly a great deal of people never really advance past developing a 'creep up on one guy and hose em' style of play.

        Ultimately it's a very limited use firing mode that can be very effective within that arena and woeful outside it. In most situations in game it is usually preferable to simply get better and faster with single shot. Personally I prefer that situation, so much more...elegant��


        • #5
          Re: I'm reasonably confident fully-automatic fire is useless.


          One 'drill' I've always practiced (PR, ARMA etc) is rapid single shot on the move against a single target. Then multiple targets in an easy row. Then randomised. The idea is simply so I can learn/get a feel for how much 'bounce' there is in my sight picture when moving. Then when moving and firing with recoil. Does my sight reset or do I have to manually adjust? If so by how much and how easy is it? If it resets or traverses a pattern how long before my sight traces back over my target or 'centre', ie how quickly can I fire on target again. That way you can build a kind of cadence for single shot where you have the utmost accuracy whilst shooting on the move.

          I practiced that sort of thing endlessly in PR and whilst the recoil and shooting mechanics are different it certainly paid off for me. Not suggesting you need practice Zho lol but its surprising how far you can push the single shot technique if you have the patience and are prepared to lose a gunfight or two at the start.




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