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A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

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  • A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

    1. Killing people you've found in Squad is *easy*.
    2. Finding people in Squad is *hard*.

    Built up FOBs make it easy to find the enemy.
    FOBs on a flag make it easy to find the enemy.

    The first response to this is usually: "Well, I've built some walls to protect my guys, they will win the firefight."

    No they will not. Winning firefights in Squad is 80% manoeuvring and 20% shooting and 0% walls. Walls are temporary safety, and the only true safety is in continually moving, continually being unpredictable, continually denying the enemy the knowledge of WHERE you are. FOB structures accomplish only two things - they are a great backstop for assaulting squads' explosives, and they are a great way to give up your largest advantage for free to the enemy.

    I want my thoughts out on this so people who play frequently with me at least know my strategy behind it.
    1. Building structures around a FOB is not only a waste of time, it is directly detrimental to the team effort of winning.
    2. Building a FOB on a flag is also a terrible idea.
    3. Building a FOB where it will be easily discovered (metagame) is also a terrible idea.

    4. Building the largest possible number of FOBs possible for fluid team movement and fast reaction an excellent idea. This includes the often-forgot defensive FOBs (your side of the river on Kohat), offensive FOBs (near Farm/Lialc on Chora), and rabidly-offensive FOBs (behind Market/Mullins on Chora, near radio tower / Sarozai on Kohat) -- all great ideas.
    5. Placing FOBs in a strategic location to support exposives-carrying players with ammo is an excellent idea. Especially when assaulting compounds. Especially when assaulting compounds with both a FOB and a flag in them.
    6. Destroying old offensive FOBs to place new offensive FOBs is an excellent idea.

    The only exception to the above is building a FOB on the only flag in play when you've capped the enemy out. At that point, your entire team should be on that FOB, and the deaths that are a consequence of building the FOB will be outweighed by the bleed you're putting on the enemy by capping them out.

    Those are just my thoughts. Build many, small FOBs distributed everywhere. Build no FOBs that attract attention - either with structures or flags.

  • #2
    Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

    Zhohar raises excellent points on FOBs, especially dropping the radio directly on the capture point. That is a serious no-no.

    With the evolution of the game, we will see FOBs become very important as fire support for attacking/defending. Machine gun emplacements, TOWs, AA emplacements, medical facilities (if that is ever brought to fruition), mortars, etc. will all be available from FOBs and will be vital to the success of a team. The current system is really of little value outside of a team spawn point and as a means of getting ammunition resupply.

    "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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    • #3
      Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

      I see you posted this in the subreddit for Squad, you will receive 1 upvote from me!
      [TG4]baughman

      | | |

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      • #4
        Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

        I saw that as well. I thought to myself "I've read this already.." +1

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

          Agree with all points. I face palm pretty much every time i see a squad put a firebase on a flag. They usually don't last long. BUT i think in some cases it can be justified, like the flag cap scenario you described. However certain flags can re-inforced quite nicely with buildables, (like the 2 northern flags on Fools Road).

          I'm not one to do it myself, i much prefer putting sneaky sneaky fobs that don't get discovered. But i can see the appeal of playing around with the deployables and changing the dynamics of the attackers (e.g. blocking usual entrances forcing them to change their plan), and until the DEV's change the system and allow some deployables without a FOB in the proximity, we'll have to deal with it.

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          • #6
            Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

            Solid points Zohar, I agree on all. I never built fortifications in PR.

            However, defending the "half flag" is very important right now, just read this on the subreddit:

            Originally posted by SgtRoss_USMC
            In case any of you were wondering, the current bleed is 1 ticket per 20 seconds for every additional flag you own over the enemy. As in, if you own 3 and they own 2, they will bleed 1 ticket every 20 seconds.
            That's 45 tickets every 15m. In addition, losing a flag costs 20 tickets. Basically, if you lose the "half flag" you lose the game.

            So I think in certain flag zones that have walls it makes sense to build some cover and block some entrances. They already know where you are, in the flag zone. Force the enemy into choke points and open areas where you can kill them from cover. I like to keep it lite when I build on flags, with the radio at a maximum distance possible from the flag while allowing fortification, with half my squad outside of the compound, usually near the radio, ready to react to contact on the guys defending.

            Right now the metagame has me constantly "digging up" radios and placing them in new areas the enemy doesn't know about. But as Disposable said, in the Future Radios will have more advantages than just spawning, so this is likely to change, requiring some kind of defensive commitment to radio/fob locations.
            Stay together, communicate, don't give up.

            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

              I disagree entirely. From the meta-game point of view, Medics change all of this. walls allow medics to bring back the dead from safety. Building a fob on a flag allows for a low-ticket-cost point hold and can make losing the point damn hard with hesco barriers in place. The biggest disadvantage is poor teamwork and understanding of the meta gameplay behind this. Planetside players really get this one. The player who dies where a medic has to expose them-self to get at them has put the squad at risk of failure and a good medic or leader will declare them a lost cause.

              There is a good point in wanting to set up such a defensive point only in a winning scenario (more flags held/all flags held), but I feel that stemming the tide of dead soldiers is more important if you are losing. Losing 1 ticket per 10-20 seconds is less impact then you might think. 10 seconds per ticket for 300 tickets is 50 minutes, and that's assuming that a team gets a two flag cap advantage from the start of the game. An organized point hold squad can easily reduce losses by more then 1 per 10 seconds and allow all other team members to focus on advance and maneuver.

              There is a disadvantage inherent in undefended wilderness FOB's too. When an enemy locates it, they have no need to remove it. They can sit there and 'camp' it doing the only damage that actually matters in this game, reduce ticket count. In the 2 base advantage scenario, a player who camps 10 kills before death has given their team more then a minute of advantage over what might be gained by two flags, two minutes compared to 1 flag advantage. A single person is given way too much power in this scenario.


              Don't swear at anyone.
              Be respectful.
              Your team comes first.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                The easiest flags to assault are ones with FOBs built right in them. Once you have a multi-pronged attack on the FOB you can easily distract and cause the FOB to become unspawnable. Players who die close to an FOB appear to have longer respawn times. There for taking them out of the fight for longer.

                I've had great successes recently surrounding an attack flag with multiple FOBs before attacking all of them just far enough off the flag that it is unlikely that the one FOB planted on the flag can withstand the assault from multiple surrounding FOBs.

                Smoke, Nade over the Walls, ladder over the wall, compound taken....

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                • #9
                  Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                  Yep, FOBs on capture points make you trapped rats. I've seen it fail far more times than I've seen it succeed.

                  "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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                  • #10
                    Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                    These are great thoughts. I will say that I've listened to several developer interviews that occurred in the past week, and there were several comments about the current FOB structure and play style being referred to as "placeholders" with the intent to radically shift the mechanics and design, ideally upon the implementation of logistics and transportation vehicles.

                    Let me try to find the specifics so I'm not misquoting. All this to say - though I most certainly agree about the hidden value and importance of a large, spaced quantity of FOBS to assist and even form a foundation for defending and attacking, there will be adjustments in the future that may alter this, and we will need to be quick to adapt to get a step ahead.

                    Let me do some searching, and I'll be back.
                    EDIT: Here's one of the latest words, from Litoralis and Irontaxi, I believe.
                    Q: Let's talk about the Squad Leader. This guy can make or break a squad. A decent squad leader puts down his fobs and rally points. He's the critical point of it. Should there be more options made available to him? Better binos, scopes, smokes, airdrops... Is there going to be added anything else? And what are you going to be doing with FOB building? I know you're redesigning it.
                    A (Litoralis): Yeah, the firebase system you're seeing now is basically placeholder. That will be rebuilt, there'll be a lot more. I mentioned deployables, but we'll also try something like a line tool. Like something that lets you draw a line (straight or curved), and that'll become a hesco wall. Or a sandbag wall around that line.
                    I'm sure the Squad Leader will have more options available to him. Most actions we do are player-controlled. We won't do random supply drops, a player actually has to drive or fly the supplies to you. The commander role might be split into two people, like a CO and XO type thing. Like one guy in the back with an overview, and one guy in the front line. We'll probably split up squad leader channels into squad leader to squad leader, so you can talk to a squad leader specifically. We really have a big list with over 100 things that we want. I'd have to ask Sgt.Ross about that, I haven't been keeping up to date with what we have planned.
                    Here is some from the other Q&A that day.
                    ...Mortars (with Logistics) will be in, will need Supply Lines, Fire Base, Crates (via Truck or Helicopter) - 'Will be realistic, but not hyper realistic'...
                    ...Fire base System is currently a placeholder and being rebuilt.

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                    • #11
                      Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                      In other words, it's going to be like PR, which is what it should be and we all knew it would be. We're already there in understanding how FOBs will work and the role of logistics, believe me.

                      You're going to see squads devoted solely to logistics and those will be not only trucks but also via the air. Building FOBs will not be the responsibility of your front-line forces but instead relegated to support squads. Kinda like the real deal.

                      This is going to be a paradigm shift for an awful lot of the Squad group who never played PR. TG specialized in having this type of support structure organically grow on each team, and there are a few people here who have an incredible reputation because they understood the critical importance of logistics to the success of the team. Having players that will return a logistics truck to main instead of driving it and abandoning it on the field because they were finished with *their* use of it, missing the point that that vehicle is critical to the success of the *rest* of the team. Enemies that understand that an abandoned enemy vehicle found on the field needs to be destroyed not because it will cost the opposing team tickets (although that is nice), but because you deny them critical supplies that they need to advance their front with spawns, deny them ammunition resupplies and deny them the ability to repair their armored vehicles.

                      We're already there. We're just waiting for Squad to catch up to us.

                      "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                        ...and that is truly an exciting factor of TG, and makes me proud to be a part of it. I was a BF2/2142 player, but I would absolutely LOVE to be a logistics guy and pilot (or drive) supplies. I possibly sense a TGU course when the time comes? ;)

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                        • #13
                          Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                          All hail [MENTION=23902]Bullseye2550[/MENTION] - the king of logistics! :D

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                          • #14
                            Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                            Talking to a chopper pilot and directing him to where I want supplies droped for my squad...that always gave me goosebumps in PR.
                            Stay together, communicate, don't give up.

                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Re: A simple, clear, and direct explaination of why FOBs should never be built up.

                              Goosebumps and frustration hand and hand.
                              doYouEvenLuftwaffe

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