Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thoughts of a noob

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Thoughts of a noob



    Hey guys!

    I’m fairly new to SQUAD, but I am of purebred Project Reality stock.


    I have felt a feeling of disorganization in most squads I have joined, as in SMs following the SL like lemmings, squad chat is spammed, and so on.
    So I took it upon myself to try to organize this chaos, and I found it hard making decisions with all the chatter and constant “suggestions” going on in my squad.
    Despite my relative inexperience with SQUAD I decided that I would try to implement one of my favourite things to do in Project Reality, Fireteams.


    My hope with this was to limit squad chat to fireteam leaders (FTL) and SL while the rest of chat would be in local unless it was critical information.
    So I asked my squad if I could get two volunteers to FTL, and I think their names were…. Samwise and GamerAddicted(?). I split the squad up in two teams (TEAM1, TEAM2), one medic in each team and three riflemen while I was alone.


    Lo and behold, it worked!
    The whole squad was onboard with the idea, plus I had two great FTLs.

    Gone was the spam in squad chat, gone was the lemming-like behaviour as I could order the teams instead of calling out individuals.
    The only downside is that often the other team is way fast in capping flags compared to my squads.


    So if you like to play slow and methodically, and would like to lead a fireteam, then come join my squads!


    ​​​​​​​

  • #2
    I was in that squad, Crawlingeye, and it was great to play as part of a fireteam. Fireteams were fundamental to the tactics of the 1st MIP so it felt very comfortable to me, and I think it was quite effective, especially considering how ad-hoc it all was. I'll be sure to look for your squads in the future.
    |TG-1stMIP|Mannerism​​​​​​​

    Comment


    • #3
      Was good to see both you and mingmong the other night!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KeithMann View Post
        I was in that squad, Crawlingeye, and it was great to play as part of a fireteam. Fireteams were fundamental to the tactics of the 1st MIP so it felt very comfortable to me, and I think it was quite effective, especially considering how ad-hoc it all was. I'll be sure to look for your squads in the future.
        It opens up possibilities like leapfrogging, supress and maneuver.
        Having two FTLs handling the combat side of things meant that I could focus more on strategy and identifying enemy movement.

        Originally posted by Jeepo View Post
        Was good to see both you and mingmong the other night!
        Yeah! Nostalgia overcame me so I couldn't stay away any longer.
        ​​​​​​​

        Comment


        • #5
          Crawlingeye,


          Thank you for playing on the server. We need mature minded people on the server in both the SM and SL positions.


          My experience doesn’t come from PR, but rather BF2142 and some BF2, all several years before I started playing Squad. So, I was only halfway familiar with the gameplay when I first started playing three months ago.


          Since that time, I too have come to love slowing it down and being a little bit more methodical. These days I have Wicks and Dispo going off in my head as I play, “Slow down! Why are you rushing?! Bullets are free in this game, so let’em have a few! Why aren’t you suppressing those windows?! Don’t go in there, ‘nade it first, then go in! You pesky kids, get off my lawn! Etc, etc.”


          I have also come to learn the usefulness of fireteams. I use them for several applications, both defensive and offensive. If another squad needs to be reinforced on an attack, I’ll send a team. Same for defending a point. Also, if I need to place a FOB or do something special, I setup a fireteam. They are handy in many ways at many times. I generally do not have a set fireteam, since I use them for different functions at different times, so I may need a variety of different kits. But, to each SL his own, as to how he picks his fireteams.


          I feel the need to disagree with you on a few points though.


          The first is the use of comms. Your guys need to be able to banter a bit in the “down-time” amongst the whole squad, thus in the squad comms. However, they should understand that they need to remain sharp at all times, and cease bantering when maneuvering and/or action starts, or you call to hold comms to talk to the other SLs. I agree that squad comms can get spammed by some, and that should be stopped, so not disagreeing with that, but simple fun conversation is good. I also believe that conversations that ensue should take place in the squad comms, so as not to interfere with the communications of other squads or players who may be at, or moving with you to, the same location as you. I do not allow the spamming/overloading of local comms since that is where the details of enemy movement is passed along as it relates to you in that spot in that moment. But again, worries about this generally disappear when you make it clear that they need to stay sharp, and that it ends when maneuvering and/or action starts, or you call to hold comms to talk with the other SLs.


          The second disagreement comes in two parts.


          This first part may seem contrary to some of my previous statements, but it is not. Part one is how you bust your squad up. While fireteams are useful in many ways in various circumstances, they are the exception and not the rule. They are not, or should not be, a constant piece of your squads equation. The game is called “Squad”, and not “Two Fireteams and a Lone-wolf SL”. If you are going to constantly have two four man teams, your squad and the entire team are better off having two separate squads formed.


          The second part is also how you bust your squad up. I agree that all of my SMs should be thinking and using their brains. For example: if I don’t think and use MY brain, and not clear a corner before I cross the street, then get mown down, my squad should not follow suite. However, the game is called “Squad” and not “Eight Lone-wolves and an SL”. My SMs SHOULD be following me from point to point, how I move and where I move, and should not be scattered all over the countryside. While on defense of a point, no they should not follow me around, but rather spread out and cover all directions. While attacking a point, they should be with the SL to break through the line and capture that point. Onesies and twosies fail every time when attacking a defense line.


          Third disagreement is an apparent unwillingness to receive suggestions. I take suggestions all day long. That certainly doesn’t mean I follow any of them, but I would not be wise to not consider them. Many times a recommendation has come along that was far better than what was planned in my head.


          Hope you consider my positions on these things. And if I have misunderstood your take on anything, please let me know where.

          Look forward to playing with you on the server!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Asta85 View Post
            This first part may seem contrary to some of my previous statements, but it is not. Part one is how you bust your squad up. While fireteams are useful in many ways in various circumstances, they are the exception and not the rule. They are not, or should not be, a constant piece of your squads equation. The game is called “Squad”, and not “Two Fireteams and a Lone-wolf SL”. If you are going to constantly have two four man teams, your squad and the entire team are better off having two separate squads formed.


            I don't SL in Squad, but I've lead a fair number of "squads" in ArmA and I can tell you that two good FTLs makes a mediocre SL into an All Star. As an SL keeping track of 8 guys takes mental energy. If you can pass that responsibility of to FTLs and only worry about maneuvering your teams, that frees you up to plan and track the enemy.

            Also I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of Fire Teams. Fire Teams are not independent units, but parts of a whole. The are the maneuver units of a squad, allowing for bounding overwatch, fixing and flanking, etc. Fire Teams should NEVER work away from each other - they are the left and right hands of the squad. Sure they CAN do things on their own, but only together do they work at full potential.

            Ideally you'd have a Squad composed of Fire Teams, in turn composed of Buddy Teams - and no one has more than 3 direct reports. Its a flexible system that has been time tested and works.

            All that said, if you, as Squad Leader, can and want to manage each member of your squad as independent resources and are effect when doing so - more power to you :)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Asta85 View Post

              The first is the use of comms. Your guys need to be able to banter a bit in the “down-time” amongst the whole squad, thus in the squad comms. However, they should understand that they need to remain sharp at all times, and…
              The spam I’m referring to is for example during firefights. Alot of confusion appear when there are multiple contact reports at the same time in squad chat, meaning that probably the whole squad looks down at their compass to look that way giving the enemy opportunity to flank.

              If instead I only have two reports from my FTLs and they in turn only have three reports from their fireteam members (FTMs), they filter contact reports from FTMs to me giving me a clearer picture.


              Originally posted by Asta85 View Post

              This first part may seem contrary to some of my previous statements, but it is not. Part one is how you bust your squad up. While fireteams are useful in many ways in various circumstances, they are the exc...
              If the game was called Platoon would you not try to split the team into squads? /s


              The fireteams are in no way working as different entities on the battlefield, nor am I as SL lonewolfing. As Noyava mentioned you work toward the same objective helping each other as in one team suppress while the other advances, bounding overwatch and so on.



              Originally posted by Asta85 View Post

              The second part is also how you bust your squad up. I agree that all of my SMs should be thinking and using their brains. For example: if I don’t think and use MY brain, and not clear a corner before I cross the street, then get mown down, my squad should not follow suite. However, the...
              I am not sure what part you are referring to. But the squad is not made of eight lonewolfs because it is split up into two teams, I'd say it's the exact opposite.

              Instead of me taking point moving toward an objective I leave that to a fireteam and have it move to waypoints at its discretion while the other team picks up the rear. Because often if the SL moves on point he is the first one to get mowed down.

              Having two FTLs means that I can appoint one to command the squad quickly if I (as SL) die, and it comes naturally as they are already in a position of authority in the squad.


              Originally posted by Asta85 View Post

              Third disagreement is an apparent unwillingness to receive suggestions. I take suggestions all day long. That certainly doesn’t mean I follow any of...
              That may have come out wrong on my part.

              I gladly take suggestions and tips on game mechanics, but as an SL I don't need someone challenging my orders constantly because they disagree since they have played this map 10 times before and because of that probably knows what the enemy will do.


              If I come off as hostile to you, I don't mean to be so...… I just really like fireteams.
              Last edited by Crawlingeye; 01-17-2017, 10:59 AM.
              ​​​​​​​

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with almost everything that was written here.
                I just wanted to add that we can not forget that each night (or every time we play) there are new or different players, who may not have the affinity that we have when playing together.

                For example when playing with Asta, Diposable, Mikes, Gaunt, Mannerism and many other TG guys, I know that splitting the squad into FT can be very good and work well, cause I know what these guys know what they're doing...
                And I know that communication (vital to the game) that I will pass to my FTL and that it will pass to my SL will work and will help.

                Now when we play with others who are starting or even not caring about the game, it can be bad because I think there will be a "break" in this important function that is communication for the game.

                It's not just about how you play, but also with whom you play.

                Remembering that I am not a strategist nor know a lot of tactics and military simulations, so I just want to complement what has already been said with what I think I just appreciate the genre and I love playing when there is a mature community and willing to play serious.
                #ThoughtsOfANoob LOL

                Comment


                • #9
                  LOL No hostility perceived. I likewise hope that my bluntness was not taken wrong.

                  Originally posted by Crawlingeye View Post
                  The spam I’m referring to is for example during firefights. Alot of confusion appear when there are multiple contact reports at the same time in squad chat, meaning that probably the whole squad looks down at their compass to look that way giving the enemy opportunity to flank.

                  If instead I only have two reports from my FTLs and they in turn only have three reports from their fireteam members (FTMs), they filter contact reports from FTMs to me giving me a clearer picture.
                  I now see better where you are coming from on this and see what you are saying. However, I still disagree about the confusion amongst the squad. One of the first things I learned to do while playing the game is to check my map often. If the squad has the awareness I believe they should, they will know roughly where their teammates are when a thing is called out (contact vs. sighting). Also, if the squad keeps tab on the general direction they are facing, they can call what they see in that direction, then give the true bearing, and that is far easier for the squad and SL to digest. If a thing is called improperly, that is a teaching opportunity, whether right then or directly after the fact. Lastly on this, in my opinion, having the information pass through multiple hands slows down it's flow when it is critical to have it faster when in contact. Not a good thing in my mind.

                  Originally posted by Crawlingeye View Post
                  If the game was called Platoon would you not try to split the team into squads?
                  Fair point

                  Originally posted by Crawlingeye View Post
                  The fireteams are in no way working as different entities on the battlefield, nor am I as SL lonewolfing. As Noyava mentioned you work toward the same objective helping each other as in one team suppress while the other advances, bounding overwatch and so on.
                  Thank you for this clarification! However, that is not (as I read it) the intimation given in your original post, "I split the squad up in two teams (TEAM1, TEAM2), one medic in each team and three riflemen while I was alone."


                  Originally posted by Crawlingeye View Post
                  I am not sure what part you are referring to. But the squad is not made of eight lonewolfs because it is split up into two teams, I'd say it's the exact opposite.
                  Granted, that was a bit of a dramatization, but it is close to the logical end you get when your squad doesn't follow you. And I get this from your statements on lemmings, "I have felt a feeling of disorganization in most squads I have joined, as in SMs following the SL like lemmings..." and "Gone was the spam in squad chat, gone was the lemming-like behaviour as I could order the teams instead of calling out individuals."

                  I too do not believe all eight SMs should be on my heels the whole game, and that they need to use their own heads while playing, but they also need to move with me as I move from point to point and not be scattered across the map.

                  Originally posted by Crawlingeye View Post
                  Instead of me taking point moving toward an objective I leave that to a fireteam and have it move to waypoints at its discretion while the other team picks up the rear. Because often if the SL moves on point he is the first one to get mowed down.

                  Having two FTLs means that I can appoint one to command the squad quickly if I (as SL) die, and it comes naturally as they are already in a position of authority in the squad.
                  Excellent. This and what Noyava had to say is very good. I am eager to hear more on the implementation of multiple fireteams. Basically the composition of them, how to interact with them, and how to use them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For a different take, in PR we used to take 2 full squads and coordinate them as a single squad. So imagine 4 fire teams working together with suppression and flanking elements coordinated. Stuff dreams are made of. I won't go into detail about what we did when we had entire teams coordinated as a massive convoy...

                    FIre teams are making their way into the game in an official capacity. I look forward to that day. Great thread so far guys!

                    "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BitmapLuke View Post
                      Now when we play with others who are starting or even not caring about the game, it can be bad because I think there will be a "break" in this important function that is communication for the game.
                      I can see where you are coming from with your concern, but in this particular instance I only knew mp40 while the rest of the dudes were unknown, to me. I guess one might need to take the tempretature of the squad before enganing in this kind of play.

                      It is however my belief that playing like this is great for new players and aspiring SLs who don't feel comfortable leading a squad yet.
                      The new players are introduced to an organized way of playing, and are assigned a role. They can be babysitted throughout the learning process mostly without negative effects on squad discipline.
                      People who want to start squadleading, but aren't comfortable sitting in the big boy saddle just yet, can begin to take on more responsibilities as an FTL instead of just being a squad member.

                      This kind of play might seem harsh and hardcore tactical only fit for tier one operators, but more often than not it is a welcoming atmosphere that attracts mature (and maturing) players, and is the perfect way for new people to be introduced to the TG way.

                      Would anyone be opposed if I used the LEARN TG squadname while playing like this?


                      Originally posted by disposableHero View Post
                      For a different take, in PR we used to take 2 full squads and coordinate them as a single squad. So imagine 4 fire teams working together with suppression and flanking elements coordinated. Stuff dreams are made of. I won't go into detail about what we did when we had entire teams coordinated as a massive convoy...

                      FIre teams are making their way into the game in an official capacity. I look forward to that day. Great thread so far guys!
                      Having an in game implementation would be like having the cake.... and eating it!
                      ​​​​​​​

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Crawlingeye View Post
                        Would anyone be opposed if I used the LEARN TG squadname while playing like this?
                        Absolutely not - go for it!

                        "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Formal support for fireteams within the game will be awesome. We always had to hack it a bit before. Hopefully, it will extend to kit selection so that various regular force TOEs can be simulated. I mean, how cool would it be to have a team like this?
                          |TG-1stMIP|Mannerism​​​​​​​

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Formal support is planned. Back when I interviewed the DEVs pre-launch it was a plan, and it was explained to me how it would "look". SL would have the ability to create an NCO and run half the squad. Different colours and map markers etc. As far as I am aware, those plans have not changed.

                            FT's are 100% needed. Back in my 1st MIP days they were extremely well managed and would often turn a battle. They evolved in PR to what dispo described - multiple squads or even the whole team.

                            Nowadays, TG no longer has a PR server, so when people pubby raid we usually make 2 squads with a support element (CAS, Trans, APC, Mech Inf etc) and then you have 12 or so dudes providing support. Can turn an entire server around. Simple enough to split it out using local for comms, Sq for SL/NCO, and Commander chat for SL>SL.

                            Now we just got to wait for some extra tools in Squad - but its getting there.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jeepo View Post
                              Formal support is planned. Back when I interviewed the DEVs pre-launch it was a plan, and it was explained to me how it would "look". SL would have the ability to create an NCO and run half the squad. Different colours and map markers etc. As far as I am aware, those plans have not changed.
                              I think, at least with 9 man squads, it is optimal to have this squad configuration while "fireteaming" it:

                              SL

                              FTL1 (Buddyteam 1)
                              Medic (Buddyteam 2)
                              Rifleman (Buddyteam 2)
                              Rifleman (Buddyteam 2)

                              FTL2 (Buddyteam 1)
                              Medic (Buddyteam 1)
                              Rifleman (Buddyteam 2)
                              Rifleman (Buddyteam 2)

                              Perhaps you could go so far as to have three, three man fireteams. But I think it is better for the SL to lead as small of a fireteam as possible. The bigger his fireteam is the more he has to focus on other tasks than SL tasks.


                              Of course these are my thoughts and my prefered type of play, to each his own how he wants to play the game.
                              ​​​​​​​

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X