Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

US Al Basrah AAS March 14 - Tough Match

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • [AAR] US Al Basrah AAS March 14 - Tough Match

    We had a tough match yesterday night on Al Basrah and I believe a good summation of the events from all perspectives will help us prevent such a frustrating grind from happening again.

    Match Summary

    The US at its height of offensive operations was able to secure Village and Outskirts while making an attempt to secure Courtyard. In the push for Courtyard, the assigned defensive squads were unable to hold Outskirts which necessitated a complete withdrawal to Village. The rest of the match was dominated by US efforts to regain Outskirts and push into the city. While Outskirts was eventually regained by the US at the end of the match, the heavy vehicle losses incurred in the effort combined with the high ticket bleed led to the US defeat. The US lost by over 300+ tickets.

    What the US Did Wrong
    1. No Logistics
      1. The US had virtually no HABs down at any of the operational FOBs.
      2. FOBs that were up rarely had supplies
      3. A total lack of repair stations at any FOBs led to vehicles going back to main to repair/rearm
    2. Vehicle Losses
      1. Every squad incurred multiple vehicle loses on Humvees and Strykers
      2. Vehicles were either lost to urban combat or HAT/Motorcycle ambushes
    3. Defense
      1. A non-TG Squad was playing defense in a position we knew that could not defend Outskirts.
        1. We should have found a better way to correct this rather than leaving them to their fate

    What the Insurgents Did Right
    1. HAT/AT Motorcycle Ambush/Fast Attack
      1. An insurgent squad setup their HAT/AT on a motorcycle and patrolled the vast outskirts of the city. specifically targeting the usual areas where US armor setups firing positions. This was a genius tactic
      2. This mobile attack squad also dug up our FOB at the VC point where US typically places repair stations, thus robbing us of our forward operating logistics areas
    2. Massive AT presence in the city
      1. It appeared every Insurgent squad was properly equipped with 2 ATs and had the means to constantly resupply them.
        1. The US was under a constant AT barrage and and little means to counter this
        2. Any vehicle in the city interior was quickly destroyed
        3. US forces on foot were unable to advance quickly without taking heavy casualties

    Ideas on how to counter the Insurgents
    1. Flanking
      1. A better effort to simply outright avoid Insurgent strong points and defense
      2. It may have been prudent to setup a FOB in refinery and hit the Insurgents from behind
    2. Better FOB placement
      1. The VC while a good defensive point, is becoming an obvious vehicle repair point.
      2. Repair FOBs in the open desert for US vehicles at multiple locations will become necessary
    3. Logistical train
      1. Al Basrah is mostly won by the team that can pour down the most amount of lead and heavy explosives
      2. If the US has no logistical back end setup, the match is effectively over.
    4. Situational awareness
      1. If you hear a motorcycle when you're in US armor, get moving and reposition quickly

    Summary

    I noted at the end of the match, the US had more kills and less deaths than the Insurgents. Despite our KD advantage, the Insurgents domination of the interior and quick dispatching of US vehicles led to their overwhelming victory. US pushes straight into Insurgent held areas yielded little results and created an attrition battle the US could not hope to win.

    For all Squad leaders,I believe it would be prudent to adopt the rule that you should not be taking vehicles into battle unless their is a forward repair station already in the field.. The repair station is just as important as an ammo crate and I like to bother every squad leader to get one down regardless of whether the squad is even using vehicles. Vehicles after V9 are simply too numerous and too valuable to lose en masse.

    For other who played in the match, I'd like to know what went wrong from your perspectives.

    Distinguished Squad Leader

  • #2
    The motorcycles and AT were key! Non-TG squads not moving into a cap point but staying right on the edge didn't help either. It just allowed insurgent forces to form a better defense.

    The loss of HABs or none at all is what killed us more than anything. I mean the guys on the motorcycles were taking ones out in the middle of the desert, no idea why those were even out there TBH. However I could see placing FOB's with repair stations North, South, and West of the main city. Deploy sandbags as well to help against rockets.

    Comment


    • #3
      I noticed two things:
      1) When the US had a FOB in one of the tall buildings no squad stayed back to defend it. The Insurgent team just walked right in and took it, but when the Insurgents set up they had 360 coverage in the center of town.

      2) Much smaller detail but when the squad I was in started to move in from the southern flank, both our squad and an allied squad did not move in in a proper formation. We were fine when we moved in a column following SL but as soon as the other allied showed up and started running around willy nilly we were spotted and took heavy fire, ending our attack attempt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Easter baskets found, egg hunt over... Time for tactics.

        I was on the receiving end as well of this 301-0 romp. Four US squads were remotely involved. Squad 1 (SL unknown), Squad 2 (SL unkown), Squad 3 (KILL3R) and Squad 5 (Hudson). I watched the replay of that game and the approx. timeline is as follows:


        5:00 It took almost 5 minutes for US troops to hit the city grounds. Way too slow of a start out of main.
        13:00 After taking Outskirts, Squad 2 placed our only active FOB in the city for the entirety of the match. Squad 1 stayed to hold while Squad 2 attempted to S-FOB.
        18:00 Squads 3 & 5 pushed South, with 3 on the western edge of the city and 5 just inside the MSR.
        22:00 At this moment Squad 5 was herding cats x 6. We couldn't get the rest our squad to follow as the S-FOB lure was too strong.
        28:00 Squad 3 makes a nice southern flank attempt, placing a radio in the SW of the city
        29:00 US S-FOB to the East of Outskirts is lost
        30:00 Squad 1 decides to join the southern attack (?), leaving Outskirts completely undefended. We loose Outskirts immediately
        33:00 Squad 2 begins S-FOB of Village
        35:00 Squads 1, 3, & 5 get wiped trying to fallback and retake Outskirts

        The rest as the say is history with the match ending after approximately 46 minutes. We lost a ton of vehicles, and never established a strong enough presence within the city limits. Also the two Ins S-FOB's were well placed on the rooftops of two of towers, letting them rain down rockets and grenades at will.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by QuestionableMagic View Post

          2) Much smaller detail but when the squad I was in started to move in from the southern flank, both our squad and an allied squad did not move in in a proper formation. We were fine when we moved in a column following SL but as soon as the other allied showed up and started running around willy nilly we were spotted and took heavy fire, ending our attack attempt.
          This is a good point. Compared to other maps perhaps, Basrah is especially unforgiving if you find yourself isolated as an individual squad member.



          Distinguished Squad Leader

          Comment


          • #6
            That squad that decides to drive the humvee up and just start unloading the .50 from our location on the south did not help our flank out lol. Might as well of held a billboard up saying where we were. Witch in turn made us get wiped and the insurgents to push south. As we tried to make the way back to the radio to put down a HAB the insurgents already had an entire squad down south close to the radio. They would of never known where the radio was if we were able to push the south quietly. At any rate sorry for the messy game just couldn't seem to get a foothold anywhere. The radio I attempted to place for vehicle repair only lasted like 5 min. The Ins with the HAT probably won them that game to be honest lol.

            Comment


            • #7
              Crazydrunk last night confirmed the lethality of doing a full Insurgent rush on Village. It's becoming increasingly clear that the US may need to commit 2 or 3 full squads to securing village before moving on the city interior.

              I think the US really needs to adhere to a strategy of patience when assaulting the city points on Basrah now. Secure village, setup flanking FOBs all around the city, and avoid insurgent strong points. Ticket bleed will hurt the US for bit while it doesn't control the interior but ticket bleed is hardly devastating by itself.

              Side note: I struggle to think of ways to counter Insurgent HAT kits. I killed 2 strykers, 2 humvees and 1 truck last night with the HAT kit for a grand total of 102 tickets eliminated.
              Last edited by C0pernicus; 04-17-2017, 11:39 AM.

              Distinguished Squad Leader

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by C0pernicus View Post
                Crazydrunk last night confirmed the lethality of doing a full Insurgent rush on Village. It's becoming increasingly clear that the US may need to commit 2 or 3 full squads to securing village before moving on the city interior.

                I think the US really needs to adhere to a strategy of patience when assaulting the city points on Basrah now. Secure village, setup flanking FOBs all around the city, and avoid insurgent strong points. Ticket bleed will hurt the US for bit while it doesn't control the interior but ticket bleed is hardly devastating by itself.

                Side note: I struggle to think of ways to counter Insurgent HAT kits. I killed 2 strykers, 2 humvees and 1 truck last night with the HAT kit for a grand total of 102 tickets eliminated.
                I think that the US has to adhere to a strict policy on Basrah of not allowing their strykers anywhere near the city, and they need to have dismounted troops protecting them when they are stationary. Perhaps 1 squad with 2 strykers who always stick together (one can suppress city while other covers flanks of both) and 5 dismounted troops.

                I've ran stryker squads on basrah and come away without losing a single vehicle multiple times. You just have to play to your strength and not the insurgents, even if it means reduced firepower for support in the city.

                "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think lately as people figure out Basrah, players are becoming acutely aware of just how good a mobile HAT kit is and many of us have seen a serious erosion in the US ability to contest the map in the last several days.

                  While it's a given never to take vehicles into the city, the more concerning development is the losses we've been taking and inflicting using a mobile HAT outside of the city. Myself and other TG members have had some ridiculous levels of success with the HAT kit.

                  Thinking as a SL from the US side, I'm almost inclined to switch out the 35 ticket Stryker for a simple transport truck. If Strykers and Humvees need to be constantly scanning for mobile AT/HAT trying to flank and constantly moving to avoid long range HAT shots, in my mind this leaves little time for US vehicles to actually actively engage and suppress Insurgent occupied buildings. I'm tying up 2-4 of my squad members in vehicles that are at the mercy of one well placed tandem warhead.

                  One solution for the US is to stay even farther back from the city with its vehicles.. Even with superior CROWS optics, I'm not a fan of this option.

                  A possible other idea I've yet to try is to create Stryker/Humvee FOBs surrounding the city. Using HESCOs and repair stations, we could create artificial hull down positions for vehicles firing into the city. The downside of this is that this is a resource intensive proposition.

                  Distinguished Squad Leader

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I feel the hat kit should be set up as it was in PR. It would give the us vehicles more of a chance.. And all vehicles once everyone has a hat. Constantly having a hat on the field no matter sucks.. But in pr.. If you die the hat is gone 20min till can be used again.. This made a chance for the vehicles to be usefull and to push.. I think this would help game play 10 fold

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We just had another match on Basrah that we lost by 120 tickets against the insurgents despite having 3 squads led by TG guys.

                      What went wrong this time around was easy to see and I'd like to set the facts straight because an argument erupted in all chat as to what the tactical situation was.

                      I came into the match about 1/3 of the way through and saw that 2 entire TG squads were in multiple vehicles. The squad led by Disposable and the squad led by Psycho were both fully occupied using multiple Humvees, Strykers and Logis. Through what I perceived to be squad leader miscommunication (I was not privy to the SL channel), it seems Disposable was not aware that Psycho's squad was, like his squad, totally mechanized.

                      This led to a situation where only 2 US squads were actually on foot, in the city. Inadequate forces within the interior meant that the US was unable to advance past Outskirts or even adequately defend it. This loss boils down to miscommunication. Obviously Al Basrah cannot be won with 50% of the team in vehicles.

                      On a side note regarding the use of mech infantry on Al Basrah. I believe the long range Stryker/Humvee fire directed on the multi story buildings is likely an overrated tactic. Since nearly every building in the city is able to be occupied, suppressing only 1 high rise with 1 or 2 vehicles doesn't really hamstring the insurgents. At one point our team had 3 strykers and 1 humvee providing long range suppressive fire and we were still pushed back to Outskirts.

                      What I wanted to see from our mech infantry was flanking FOBs with HABs. I think a Stryker and Logi could penetrate the interior of the city from an undefended direction and get us down a quick alternate spawn location, Use vehicle mobility to get down flanking FOBs so the US has multiple attack vectors on points like Courtyard and Suburbs. Disposable's squad actually did this near the end of the match, but it was unfortunately too late to take full advantage of it.

                      At the end of the day, the US infantry has straight up better optics and weapons than the insurgents. This advantage has to be more fully realized.

                      Distinguished Squad Leader

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Let's clear this up:

                        There was NO communication on the SL channel outside of myself and Psycho talking every once in a while. It actually started at the beginning of the round when we tried to get the entire team to move to Village using the strykers as transport. Non-communicative SLs lead to the stryker squad alone moving to Village with back-up from psycho. One squad decided to rush Refinery instead, got down a radio and were of no effect whatsoever. Actually, that delayed the capture of the Outskirts flag.

                        We lost a round. Big. Deal. No one really died, and we'll get a chance to do it again.

                        One thing I am really, really tired of is being told that "Our team is losing because you guys aren't here helping us wah wah wah"

                        I play the game for enjoyment, not to be bitched out by some random guy because he doesn't think I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I cannot tell you the number of times the squad I'm leading is the *only* squad placing radios/habs, the *only* squad not "zerg-rushing" the attack point over and over from the same direction, the *only* squad that will gladly stay behind at a point to defend it because the rest of the team has the attention span of a gnat and have to Attack! Attack! Attack!

                        I told the SLs last night that maybe we should just try to hold what we had on the west side of the main N/S road (forgot the other flag name). That way the strykers can control the NS road and we can win by attrition. This was followed by *radio silence*. Yet as soon as the busy-bodies who have nothing better to do than try to micro-manage every other SL see something that their inner Patton disagrees with, they suddenly decide to all start talking.

                        So instead, we kept our strykers on the southern part of town to control the egress of vehicles outside of the enemy main and to try to prevent them from flanking behind our team and taking out the HABs predictably placed along the western edge of the city. Those went down anyway, and the same guys complaining to us about not helping the team are the same squads that abandoned one of our 2 logi trucks, a transport truck and a humvee near the Gas Station Radio/HAB for the insurgent team to come and destroy for free. One of those squads could have taken that logi and moved elsewhere with it to get a flanking HAB set up somewhere. Instead, they couldn't wait to rush into the city to go die and give up 5 seconds later so they can get back in the fight.

                        Bottom line is this: It was one round out of thousands played on our server. We lost. Big deal.

                        "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          'Heavy fobs' is something that Dispo and I have discussed at length in the past as a means to increase survivability of vehicles and longevity of fire support. However as you note they are resource intensive and of limited value as the bulk of the flags are in the city.

                          As a confirmed believer in boots on the ground it is my opinion that vehicles are over used on this map when you take into account their inherent cost and limited scope of application. I think this is simply a natural consequence of their introduction in the development process and the assumption that their increased firepower and range ALWAYS offer an advantage. In truth, like most things, it's situational.

                          I would use them at standoff range to get infantry close enough to village that the assault on foot doesn't take forever over open ground. I would forgo the apparent Meta (smirks) of any real rush on refinery and focus on getting troops to the city. Getting those first city flags capped removes the need to use the outskirts and makes it an option instead.

                          If using a Stryker I would probably deploy an AR, marksman or scoped rifleman to act as additional security. As ever with vehicles, better positioning, cover, Hull down etc is important. Infantry clearing buildings you are using as cover on the outskirts again is desirable.

                          I feel it's somewhat self explanatory really. The bulk of flags are in the built up area. Vehicles have limited application in built up areas. Therefore the vehicles have limited value. That value can still be exploited in the right situation but it cannot form the basis of a strategy. The strategy is to get troops into the city.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bouncing off what Dispo just said I totally agree that a progressive NW to East/South East clear is the best way to take the city. With maybe one squad coming in SW.

                            Sadly many, many players are obsessed with Ninja flanks. The overuse of one tactic, time and time and time again irrespective of the tactical situation.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not sure why squad 1 the non TG squad abandoned the 3 vehicles at the gas station but my squad did end up retrieving atleast the logi (other 2 were blown up) and used it to get a Fob down in outskirts after they took the other one down to the north. We did try to hold courtyard and never really tried to push out of it but there were just so many of them flooding from the east. But meh I don't really care not like you win some kind of prize for winning lol we ended up just holding outskirts the last half of the match. Did not help that I had a bunch of randoms in my squad haha never know what your gonna get. But that map is always hard as Blufor it's meant to be. It was in PR as well but we had tanks lol
                              Last edited by K1LL3R 0F 4LL; 04-21-2017, 10:31 AM.

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X