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Using magnified optics effectively

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  • Shade
    started a topic Using magnified optics effectively

    Using magnified optics effectively

    This post is born from a discussion I was having with Wicks on Discord and I decided to carry over here to not hijack general discussion over-much.

    I have a bit of trouble using the US ACOG effectively and was curious about what it's quirks are and how to be more effective at medium to long range with accurate first-shots.

    Here is a copy/paste of Wicks response from Discord.

    Wicks: "At range it will pull up right a bit at times, I mean extreme range. Not recoil, I mean the round will pull up. For short and medium, under a hundred, I put the thickness of the chevron directly on the face. At that distance the margin or error is pretty forgiving. If I'm firing rapidly I will aim at the base of the neck and fire two shots rapidly with little to no recoil control, this puts the second round in the head if you do it quick.

    Alternatively at medium you cover their head with the chevron, giving them a pretty red hat. That works nice out to about 200. There is a bit of deviation built in.

    That's why you'll often see me let off two shots fast but the first shot kills them. I'll aim a touch lower and just left or right depending on their direction of movement. Basically insurance
    At long range I exert no positive recoil control over the gun, zero pull down, just let it go and let the gun 'reset'. I find if you pull down you pull your shot off target

    It's situational though and as you get better you can decrease the 'recoil window'. Essentially I base how long I let the gun go based on a few factors, proximity, urgency, purpose. If I'm shooting long range at a single target, I let it cycle through the recoil fully. If he's moving I'll cut the recoil short a bit, basically just before the top of cycle. If it's medium I exert more control and will pull down a bit more as I already tracking laterally to the next target, assuming I've just engaged target 1. This is because target 1 had the longest set up time so in theory it should be a one shot deal. Close range I'm managing the gun continuously because though this has a negative affect at fine accuracy that's not what I need, I have big targets. What I need is rapid acquisition and traversal between targets.

    I don't think it's you shade. You may find you shoot faster with the Acog and tend to pull your shots more. The Acog has a bold reticle and people tend to shoot at the reticle not the target, I know, that sounds weird. The Russian scope is a little less clear so you may find you're actually taking a little more time to properly acquire your target, hence the better precision
    ."

    Since I didn't respond in Discord, here is what I was going to say:

    That makes sense about the target picture and shooting at the recticle. When I first started shooting in RL, that is something I had to learn too. Looking at the target in focus and putting the irons/optic on it. Suppose even in a game it happens too! I'll have to mess around with the Acogs a bit more. I tend to only use an ACOG when I SL anyways, mainly for the zoom for more awareness. I've never been much of a sniper/marksman in games. Too impatient, I enjoy pushing the enemy and attacking more. My problems with the ACOG seem to come in when i engage at medium to long range. Closer than that I just aim center mass 80% of the time.

    If anyone else has anything to add, feel free. I looked back a few pages and couldn't find any topic about this made recently so figured I could start it. For science or whatever.
    (Let me know if anything needs changed.)

  • Shade
    replied
    I think I might have to hop on Jensen's sometime and test it out too. I need to know what part of the reticle to use based on what range.

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  • Wicks
    replied
    With a little testing I have a rough and ready range card for the M110
    Range Point of aim
    0 - 100 Tip of Chevron
    100 - 200 Thickness of Chevron band
    300 Tip of Red vertical (cover the target)
    400 400 mark at base of neck
    500 400 horizontal = point of impact (POA)
    600 450 (a 500 hold on centre mass = will hit head
    700 500
    800 525
    Please appreciate this is very rough and ready. If anyone wants a more accurate version we could jump on Jensen's range and take turns shooting and spotting to get more precise readings.

    Shade
    Last edited by Wicks; 11-02-2017, 05:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shade
    replied
    Wicks Yeah I suppose that's part of the problem. When I sight down the gun, I do find my aim point is slightly lower than I thought it would be at first. Then, when sighting and immediately firing, the round does end up going low. Since what I'm looking for here is that first shot accuracy, it's probably just gonna take some getting used to raising the unsighted weapon a bit more on the screen so it's on target when I sight in.

    BitmapLuke Helpful little diagram. But yes, knowing if the guns actually behave like in real life would be necessary to use that. And that kinda where I'm having trouble. On that first target, the round is assumed to impact on the top of the chevron at 100 meters. But in game, I rarely seem to be able to use the top of the chevron for aiming, even at the range for it. The round always seems to hit lower than it should, somewhere in the middle of the triangle formed inside the chevron.

    Red Dog Dragon An interesting video. Pretty much a summary of the features of the guns. The damage numbers are interesting though with the SVD hitting much harder for longer. The recoil is definitely a bit more though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Red Dog Dragon
    replied
    Interesting video talking about the marksman rifles in Squad, might be worth a watch.

    Leave a comment:


  • BitmapLuke
    replied
    Good poits Shade and Wicks

    I'm no expert on guns, just an enthusiast in shooting games. But if I may contribute...
    I found this illustration in the trijicon manual

    y8ADGDK.jpg


















    (In case you want you can check better here http://stevespages.com/pdf/trijicon_ta-338-3x30.pdf)

    However, in game idk if the ACOG isn't zeroed and how close to the real the physics in game work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wicks
    replied
    Something I neglected to mention is default weapon orientation. When not sighted in the weapon, if 'aimed' at about neck/head height, actually looks like it's pointing upwards a bit too much, a result of perspective I suppose. I would orientate my unsighted weapon down a bit when I first started playing, I sometimes still do and have to correct.

    The problem is, and I'm getting this back around to Acog sighting issues I promise, is that when you come to scope in with a 4X scope you then have to adjust up to get you in the head zone. Bear in mind that the transition from unsighted to zoomed is a little disorientating anyway, if only for a fraction of a second. So combine that with the necessary upward micro adjustment to acquire a decent sight picture and you're already having problems before you start. You're adding in delay (which can be fatal) and increasing your 'adjustment period' to the new, magnified sight picture. In addition you then potentially face the problem of sailing past your desired point of aim, ie scoping too high. Again another disorientating adjustment is required to correct, if you're not already dead.

    A huge amount of shooting techniques, be it short, medium or long start with the preparation. That's the platform you're working off, are you and the gun in the right place before you even start.

    As a point of aim for medium shots I aiming at the T-Junction of the shoulders minimum, ie, the base of the neck. Head if I have time. Ultimately against good shooters those are the margins you are talking about when you don't have the luxury of an unhurried first shot.

    Leave a comment:

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