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My idea on how to organize a squad

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  • My idea on how to organize a squad

    In a discord discussion earlier this week I got an idea on how to organize a squad into fireteams now and even when implemented in the game. The idea is to split the squad into seperate squads (called fireteams from now on). I think playing like this may help with comms dicipline and it sets a natural chain of command.

    For a squad leader to set this up properly he would need a fireteam leader who is on board with the idea, preferably before making the squad. So what I imagine is that both leaders create their fireteams named something like:

    "INF 1A (4)" and "INF 1B (4)"

    INF for infantry, 1 for squad number, A and B for fireteam designation, (4) for fireteam size cap.


    When the fireteam reaches four players the leader locks their fireteam.
    The fireteams will be somewhat lacking in special weaponry, but they are able to acquire at least one AT and AR together.


    The channels are already set within the game.

    FTLs communicate via direct comms in command voice chat
    FTs communicate via squad voice chat
    Squad communicate via local voice chat

    I'd like to try this out sometime, maybe this friday/weekend, to see how it would work out. If one would like to get really into it it you could add another fireteam into the mix meaning you would get a full 12 man squad.

    To clarify what I mean when I say that organizing a squad like this may be relevant even after fireteams are added in the game look at it this way: The "fireteam" designations within the game would be buddyteam designations. The designated FTL within the game would be the leader of a buddyteam. You would then have a natural chain of command within a squad going all the way from SL->FTL->BTL->SM

    Tell me what you guys think and let me know if you want to try it out!

  • #2
    You can also create a bigger squad just by increasing the fireteam size to... 5 or 6. This way you can get more exotic kits and also the benefit of more manpower/firepower although probably at the expense of versatility.


    • #3
      After a brief discussion with Wicks we came to some conclusions regarding this type of organisation, but without having tried it yet they are still theoretical.
      • We do not believe that the long awaited fireteam support within the game will do much to enable the use of fireteams more than what is currently available.
      • The proposed organization is easier to "visualize" for squad members.
      • The proposed organization solves the comms situation.
      • The proposed organization gives a clear chain of command.
      The addition of fireteams in the upcoming releases will probably only enable the SL to designate different colours to their teams and also enable him to set markers to the individual fireteams. The FTL will probably have no features other than being a FTL in name. The comms situation will still be present.

      The organization I have proposed is easier for individuals to visualize and grasp. There is a clearer sense of team when you have your own comms channel for the fireteam. As a member you don't have to keep track of 8 other guys, just your buddy and the other buddyteam. What the addition of fireteam UI could help with here is the designation of buddyteams.


      • #4
        Sounds good! I think this setup would solve a lot of the common complaints I have about running effective squads. It should facilitate maneuvers that are harder to coordinate with "embedded fireteams" as it is now.


        • #5
          I'll holler for you if I see you in game!


          • #6
            This post may come across as a bit pretentious, but I'm going to risk it.

            The background I have is doing this for years, first with the 1stMIP in bf2 and later with others in PR. So that is a long history of experience on doing this without nearly any help from the game mechanics.

            Now I expect as the system comes in that people will put a lot of thought into what kits they use across teams, and other minutiae.

            However in my experience, there are some key elements that are usually overlooked, yet way more important for things to work. Consider this is for open squad public play. In a In-house squad e.g.things would be different as roles can be clarified beforehand.

            Now the advantage of using fireteams, imo, is ease of management, and faster response-time. Ideally, playing with fireteams can be nearly as easy as running a 2 man squad. For this to work, the first key element is:

            1 cohesion. Your fireteam members have to be within proximity voip range to get a comms advantage, and for them to be able to respond to orders in a timely manner. Currently, there is a deep habit, both in TG and outside to run all over the place (tactically). This makes the SL and FTL have to spend much of their time trying to get the fireteam together. This makes you lose all the speed advantage, and much of the comms advantage. This is why imo cohesion is key.

            Now realistically, you are going to get a mixed bag in a squad. My SOP for this is to put only the guys that are best at keeping this cohesion strictly in the non-sl fireteam. Of this fireteam the FTL should be someone on the same page with you, and the others should be those that will stick close enough all game, so that your fireteam can respond quickly and independently most of the game.

            Then I put the other players, unknowns and wanderers, in my fireteam as SL. This leaves me with only half a squad to manage. As I get bogged down micromanaging, there is another fireteam that can move a lot quicker with very little management. Better to have on slow FT and one fast, rather than two slow FTs.

            In my experience a 3 man fireteam with good cohesion, is much more effective than a 4 man fireteam that has one dude constantly wandering off, rendering the fireteam immobilized more often than not. As it has to wait for one guy tha tis off going solo-tactical. Importantly, the skill of these members is largely irrelevant. The player wandering can be extremely good in skill, but he will cost so much time in reaction speed and comms distraction, that the squad on a whole is reduced to a mob with players playing their own game separately and you will lose control.

            So the key thing is to get a FTL beforehand, then get him to have an easy job, so he can take a lot of work off your hands.

            When this works, using fireteams is a lot of fun and can be very effective sometimes. If you're in a a firefight, without fireteams you have to find and give orders to individual players and they might not listen. All this while you are getting shot at, are receiving an overload of comms, and are trying to gain situational awareness. I feel currently there are only individual or squad wide tactics happening, as in most situations it is beyond the SL's ability to really affect the squad during a firefight. When the shooting starts, people spot enemies, and do their own thing.

            However when you have functioning fireteams, and the first shot hits, you have only 2 entities to give orders too instead of 9. A huge difference. Now there is some possibility of an organized reaction, fast, while under fire. You can make a snap decision, order it and be safe in the knowledge that everyone knows what to do.

            This type of gameplay really appeals to me, and I think to many squad players, if they are willing to apply the cohesion that is needed to make it work.

            2 comms.

            Everyone uses almost exclusively local comms, except SL and FTL. This should and will be broken in emergencies, and that is no problem if it isn't excessive. Most squad players already have this habit to a large extent.


            Cohesion is the main thing. If cohesion is good, the rest (kits, comms, etc.) becomes easy to manage.
            Non-SL fireteam has experienced cohesive players, SL fireteam has the rest.

            For anyone looking to use FT's, this is my 2c, but take into account that it is based on a lot of failure :D.

            Crawlingeye, my apologies if my post was not in the direction you intended for the thread, do let me know if so.


            • #7
              One of the purposes of splitting the squad up into two "squads"/teams is to solve the comms issue and that I believe it is easier to pull of with a bunch of pubbies. The smaller the squad/team is the easier it is to keep the guys together, now if the fireteams are all in the same "squad" it affects the ability to grasp the concept I think.

              Just imagine yourself as a pubbie and you join a squad, you get told that you are apart of alpha team with john doe as FTL. You get your map up to scroll over everyone to see where they are and to identify your FTL, it's kind of a hassle and it's hard to get a cohesive team.

              If a pubbie joins "INF 1A", he can also see that there is another squad "INF 1B", he is told that INF 1B is the other fireteam or sister squad. It's easy to identify your FTL and fireteam as... the squad is the fireteam.


              • #8
                Aha now I understand my original confusion reading your OP, I missed you were using two separate squads. You approach would certainly have some advantages.

                I do wonder If you'll run into difficulties keeping the hierarchy clear, and the squads in the same area. I am presuming you would be operating off 2 rallypoints. One way to resolve that might be to put the rallypoints on top of each other often.


                • #9
                  I don't know yet! It's all theoretical




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