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DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

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  • DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

    A lot of people ask us about 64 versus 128 or 256 players. Technically, we can go to 256, we’ve tried it.
    We play tested with 128. You’ve got to make a game that’s fun to play and, arguably, we think that the most fun you can have is when it’s between 32 and 40 players.

    We’ve done substantial research into this and tested 128 and that it’s not fun. Maybe we haven’t done our design work good enough, but we just feel like there’s no point in going higher than 64.
    source: http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2011/03/...t-256-players/

    How come the CEO is having doubts about the design work?
    Last edited by general_alvin; 03-09-2011, 10:41 AM. Reason: Lien beat me to it http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlefield-3/173206-we-could-do-256-players-but-would-suck.html
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  • #2
    Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

    I don't think he's putting doubt into their design. He's just saying "maybe" in the sense that they've checked as much as they reasonably could... after all, you could only put so much resources into checking work without sacrificing something else (aka "analysis paralysis"). No matter how much they check, they're going to miss or overlook something. If a team were that good in design and quality checking, it's product wouldn't need corrective patches. He's just saying, "given our research, we don't see a point of going over 64".

    I noticed a lot of your posts place a lot of doubt into the development team. Are their games perfect? Definitely not, but what game is? I'm not trying to defend every decision they make, but I'm going to have faith that they generally want to make BF3 as good as it can be.


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    • #3
      Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

      It is all in the level design.
      Battlefield Samurai 'Banzaaaiii!!!

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      • #4
        Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

        Did not bf2 push the limits with 64 when they first came out with the game and no other game title has come close except Arma, then why not pioneer again and go to 128 if you can do it?






        "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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        • #5
          Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

          128 players....no thanks. You wouldnt take 3 steps without dying
          "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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          • #6
            Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

            I have faith too, Brokeback. But, after the initial excitement about BF3 and the hype it generated I get the feeling DICE is backpedalling. it almost seems they are trying to lower the expectations. Why? Did they start the hype too soon, it is more than 6 months to release after all.
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            • #7
              Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

              Maybe it's me, but I don't see how they're backpedalling. I think the more-than-64-player question is a very common question among PC players, and they're simply addressing it.


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              • #8
                Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                I don't see back peddling, I see people who want the game to be "their" way and if it's not then it's immediate garbage. And no Alvin that is not directed at you....just the general feeling of the BF3 posts I see in the entire BF3 section. I have no doubt the game will be fantastic, It will not have mod tools. It will not be super realistic. It will hold true to the BF feel and roots. And I am good with that. EA/Dice owe me nothing. I have spent money on their games and still come out WAAAAAAy ahead on the cost/entertainment ratio. I will never have a developer make a game exactly the way I want.....and I deal with it.
                "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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                • #9
                  Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                  Originally posted by [tR]Greasy_mullet View Post
                  It is all in the level design.
                  That, and the player base developing new tactics and strategies. I don't know if a limited in-house test would be enough to let it evolve and find out what the issues are. It's never really been done. Would be interesting to see it happen, and what the maps would evolve in to.

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                  • #10
                    Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                    Im just saying were getting a lot of info about whats not going to be in BF3, ok, so what will be in it, then? They are opening up for a lot of negative speculation.
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                    • #11
                      Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                      Originally posted by general_alvin View Post
                      Im just saying were getting a lot of info about whats not going to be in BF3, ok, so what will be in it, then? They are opening up for a lot of negative speculation.
                      Or positive speculation. Depends on what side of the coin you are on.

                      I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                      Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                      J.F.C. Fuller

                      Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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                      • #12
                        Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                        How easy/difficult would it be to keep a server completely populated at 256 players? Maybe I'm wrong and the PR guys can correct me, but I imagine it would be pretty difficult to keep a server maxed out with 256 players. If the game and the maps were designed around 256 players, but your server was never full and was closer to 64 players or so, wouldn't the gameplay suffer dramatically?

                        For this game, I am firmly opposed to the notion that simply "more is better". Can you imagine how disorganized a 256 player pub server would be? I think high player counts of 128 or 256 work in a game like PR because the barriers to entry for players are higher for a game like that. Players are probably generally more committed and willing to work together in a demanding game like PR that requires more from its players than just point and shoot. In a vanilla BF game where the server is all-TG, sure, 256 players could work. But what if it isn't mostly TG? What if half your team is lone wolfing, doing their own thing, sniping miles away from objectives?

                        Granted, there is no command structure in Bad Company 2 and no voip for public players, but I already feel that it is sometimes impossible to motivate your team to be aggressive when necessary and to perform essential tasks such as covering an armed MCOM and there are only 16 players a side in BC2.
                        "Looking for brahs to come fight crime with me" - Unload



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                        • #13
                          Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                          Originally posted by VoodooIT View Post
                          How easy/difficult would it be to keep a server completely populated at 256 players? Maybe I'm wrong and the PR guys can correct me, but I imagine it would be pretty difficult to keep a server maxed out with 256 players. If the game and the maps were designed around 256 players, but your server was never full and was closer to 64 players or so, wouldn't the gameplay suffer dramatically?

                          For this game, I am firmly opposed to the notion that simply "more is better". Can you imagine how disorganized a 256 player pub server would be? I think high player counts of 128 or 256 work in a game like PR because the barriers to entry for players are higher for a game like that. Players are probably generally more committed and willing to work together in a demanding game like PR that requires more from its players than just point and shoot. In a vanilla BF game where the server is all-TG, sure, 256 players could work. But what if it isn't mostly TG? What if half your team is lone wolfing, doing their own thing, sniping miles away from objectives?

                          Granted, there is no command structure in Bad Company 2 and no voip for public players, but I already feel that it is sometimes impossible to motivate your team to be aggressive when necessary and to perform essential tasks such as covering an armed MCOM and there are only 16 players a side in BC2.
                          It can be hard enough to keep it full at 64 at certain times, particularly during EU times. However, what you find when it is full is you have a core group of TG players who guide, teach and "make" the server, some people love the game style and stay, becoming TG members themselves, some don't, that's fine too. Some lead, others solely follow, and that's also fine. For the most part, lone wolfing is dealt with by admins as if it is affecting game play or contravenes the SOP's. However, I do agree that to have a server constantly full at 128 players even would be a challenge, and then keeping the standard up too. But then, we are TG, we have our own ways, we don't pander to the lowest common denominator to get a full server, we stick to the SOPs and Primer which works well, and that's our defining feature. Sure, I will take 64 skilled, proper players over 256 bad ones, But I will then also take say 128 players, with a core group that guides and teaches, as is the TG way, improving game play and improving individuals and why we put such an emphasis on our style of game play, with TGU and IHS's. We all play for the same reasons, for fun and to get better, I would rather do that and experience it with more players!

                          This is of course, all based on BF2's command structure, a good choice of kits, not just 4 which to me is a silly small number, a commander, a squad leader and rally points and WORKING VOIP. I sincerely hope they get most of these, the only one that is not OVERLY essential to meet TG's game play style is the number of classes/kits, but certainly more options there would be nicer, more diverse. If they don't, then maybe I am barking up the wrong tree all together with this game! :) I just want it to work and work well!

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                          • #14
                            Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                            One of the BF2 mods we used to run here had a script in place that would dynamically choose between 3 different map layers(16/32/64) at the end of the previous round so that the map size matched the player size. It was pretty useful from what I remember.
                            |TG-12th| Namebot

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                            • #15
                              Re: DICE CEO Patrick Soderlund: BF3 can support 256 players, but we wont do it.

                              That's another thing. One reason BF2 (and several of the mods) worked was that the game was scalable. It seems like they've forgotten all about making the game scalable (and many people from other games don't even know about that feature) so that the game will work with a variety of player numbers and bases. Maybe it's just too hard to work with their emphasis on pretty graphics and "physics!!!" design in maps and making it look cool. I'l take functional over needlessly broken but "cool" any day.

                              Basically, a typical BF2 map (and this happened with 1942 to a more limited extent) had a 16, a 32, and a 64 player "layer" or version.

                              16 player was play balanced towards limited players. Corridor shoot-outs, in-your-face action, what you're used to in BC2. 3 flags to control, limited vehicles (maybe a transport or 2 or an APC) and the rest of the map was out of bounds.

                              32 player was a step up. Larger out of bounds, more flags in play. At least one piece of armor. No jets, but maybe an attack chopper or transport chopper. Further distance from main bases to flags, different flags than 16 player in play.

                              64 player was the entire map, with the full force of the vehicles, the mainbases usually placed at opposite ends of the map, and 5-6 or more flags in play.

                              They all used the same map, the only difference was starting locations and how much of the map was out of bounds (time-till-punish-death, not unsurmountable waste high fences or impenetrable mountains/trees like we have in BC2), what flags were in play, and what assets were available (16 player usually didn't have artillery for the commander for example.)

                              What is wrong with that approach, but scaling it towards 128? or 256?

                              <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
                              <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
                              DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

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