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  • Regeneration Health/Armor

    After some side conversations in other threads, I felt this needed its own topic. I was surprised to see so many members of this community support regenerating health and armor in BF3. One thing I love about this community is we can disagree on things but have an open, honest, and mature discussion of ideas. I will start and share my opinions on this matter and hope others will do the same.

    Regeneration has it's place. It makes for faster gameplay along with the ability to take cover to heal without the need of a team medic. I used to be "GASP" a huge COD fan back with their first game and expansion. When the 2nd game came out, it had regenerating health for the single player to make a faster game where you had to rush into battle to get past some imaginary line for the game to progress. While I was more of the type of player that liked to hang back, try not to get hit, and whittle down the bad guys. For me, that was the beginning of the end of my time with COD. When Bad Co 2 had this feature as well, again I thought to myself, I hope this is not the beginning of the end.

    Teamwork vs the lone-wolf: The medic and engineer have their place. They have a role to fill as part of the Battlefield staple of teamwork. When you auto regen, you take away an element of that teamwork. Even if 60% of the time the medic/engineer helps, that still is less need for those roles. In the video for the oil rig map we have a guy take substantial amount of damage. He continues to fire, run, and engage the target but does not take another hit. While on the move doing all that, he regenerates back into full health with no care for a medic. Sure the weapons are deadly but even in my limited play time there were many times that I took damage and instead of seeking a medic, merely would seek cover for a few moments and then get right back into it. I did not have to compromise my position or search for help, I just had to wait.

    Or take a tank for example sitting back as players work RPG's against him. There are very limited weapons which can damage vehicles so the tank could be sitting there regenerating while laying waste to all around. I find that the vehicles are gimped in the game but this is not the answer. As an engineer especially, I will typically try to help that vehicle when they take cover, get out of the line of fire, or position its body to protect me from small arms fire. What is my role now when the vehicle does not NEED me as much as in the past. Sure having an engineer is nice but hey I can retreat now, not need an engineer, and not even have to get out and expose myself to fire to repair my tank! How many sneaky players here have sniped that driver as he got out to repair or waited to kill him and steal his tank?

    We already have regenerating ammo for vehicles (which I am against), why not take it that next step and let players ammo pools regenerate? I am sure support will still have something to do. Just as infantry do now, when ammo is more valuable, you use it wisely and keep the need for supplies in mind. To some ammo regeneration for infantry may seem absurd but if it is then why is it ok for vehicles or ok for health? I see the regen much the same way I see lack of VOIP, lack of commander, lack of squad in game selection (I still don't believe DICE), and having to force a Commo-Rose(Believe it when i see it). All of these things together is pushing players away from teamwork and more towards embracing the lone-wolf mentality. How does any form of regeneration help further teamwork?
    Battlefield Samurai 'Banzaaaiii!!!

  • #2
    Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

    Just so it's clear before this thread kicks off - no settings have been decided by the Admin Staff/GO.

    Community input and opinions are helpful, but ultimately there is no "more" or "less" TG setting.

    You can read more Here
    Skud


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    • #3
      Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

      Originally posted by Skud View Post
      Just so it's clear before this thread kicks off - no settings have been decided by the Admin Staff/GO.

      Community input and opinions are helpful, but ultimately there is no "more" or "less" TG setting.

      You can read more Here
      Yeah yeah ,,,, we get it..

      I for one do not like regeneration anything... I feel it takes away from the immersion of the battlefield.

      I hate the argument that the bullets are too deadly to worry about the health regen kicking in. I n Rush mode maybe thats the case, since its very tight close quarter combat but on an expansive map like Caspian, i dont see it.

      I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

      Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
      J.F.C. Fuller

      Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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      • #4
        Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

        I am with you HiTest. I hate the thought of all regeneration. I flew a jet the other night and got shot up to about 60%, flew away for a bit and was back good as gold. It is just silly. Make the pilot have the skill to skim low over the runway to repair. Obviously that is a game mechanic that DICE have not implemented, so make it you lose the jet, tough luck.

        We have an engineer kit for the ground vehicles, so regeneration of that is moot. Any tank at TG should not be lone wolfing anyway, it should be in a squad liaising with them as a valuable asset, with the squad members concentrating on protecting that tank from advancing infantry and repairs.

        As for infantry themselves, we have "medics" of sorts..... that's another issue for another thread...........We have a medic, so there is zero need for regenerating health here. Hopefully, if we can change the squad re-deploy timer to about 15-20 seconds medics will get longer to revive people, as how it stands right now it is pretty short and you always reach the body as he "dies". Let the medics be medics, and reward the team that revives, and punish the team that dies due to rush tactics with long re-spawns.

        I will be following this thread to see how much my views are shared, and I realise there is no official settings list yet, but as this is TG I would very much like to think that this view is in the huge majority.

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        • #5
          Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

          Views shared Jeepo :)

          |

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          • #6
            Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

            No health regen for me...I also fail to see the logic that the damage is so high it doesn't matter (which I don't agree with anyways) if it truly doesn't matter then why the need for it?

            Bottom line, it makes people more independent...maybe that's what some people want, but its not what I want...teamwork comes from dependency, the more you can do by yourself the less you need your team.

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            • #7
              Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

              I could go either way on regen. I have yet to experience the full gameplay because even in the beta we were missing integral weapon systems. Also, I have yet to play the game with regen turned off. Until that time comes, I am going to reserve my judgement on how I think the game should be played here @ TG.

              I should say that I played Bad Company 2 in HardCore mode (except when on TG servers). There we're times when I wished that regen was on, but mostly I didn't mind. In hardcore, if you get hit, your freakin dead anyway. As it stands with a BF3, my medic will just pull out the paddles and revive me. No need to use health packs. I'd rather the medic carry a grenade launcher then a health kit.

              All in all, we have to wait and see how hardcore mode, health levels, respawn times, low health interface, bleed out (like tanks after being disabled, if in game) and overall mechanics play out.
              -Glycerin256 <-- add me in Battlelog, Steam, Origin. Sig rig MIGHT BE FOR SALE: i5 2500k @ 4.5Ghz; AsRock Z68 Extreme4; 16GB DDR3 1866; Asus GTX 970; 500GB 840 EVO SSD; Xonar DX 7.1; Win7x64, 25.5" T260HD, etc

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              • #8
                Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                I'm torn, in many ways because BF3 is so unlike BF2 in every aspect. For jets, there is no difference in the practice of it between flying slow and low over the runway and flying slow and low way off outside the fight. You're breaking off away from the action to get some lovin for the bird. The bases on caspian were so close that someone on checkpoint or antenna could lock the US main with an IGLA if you were flying there. For helicopters, I see it as a necessity to at least limp it to a better spot to bail out over, seeing as they tip like overloaded hippos at the slightest damage, just like BC2. I'm pretty ambivalent for infantry and vehicles, I never once during the beta said to myself "If not for regenerating health, I would have won that/couldn't have won that without regenerating health". In the long term, most tankers play engineer to repair their own vehicles, just like a lot of infantry types play assault and have health packs. It's there if you can find it, and it helps, but it's not really enough to break the game one way or the other.

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                • #9
                  Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                  Glycerin's got it right.

                  I hope the game gets left alone for the most part for the first month of release. Let's see where the game goes, they did design it in the way they did for a reason, so things will hopefully be mostly balanced as is.

                  My personal views are that I didn't really notice the health regen too much because most of my play experience was in rush for the beta, so you died 90% of the time you were shot. In the two days I got to play Caspian, I did notice it when I was hiding behind cover after getting shot and then being able to continue on. I wasn't a huge fan of it, but I wasn't hugely against it. For the armor, if you're caught somewhere out in the open when you're "disabled," you're as good as dead anyways, and in the time it takes you to start regenerating armor you'd probably have been hit by another RPG and are in a worse situation or dead.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                    Originally posted by mat552 View Post
                    I'm torn, in many ways because BF3 is so unlike BF2 in every aspect. For jets, there is no difference in the practice of it between flying slow and low over the runway and flying slow and low way off outside the fight. You're breaking off away from the action to get some lovin for the bird. The bases on caspian were so close that someone on checkpoint or antenna could lock the US main with an IGLA if you were flying there. For helicopters, I see it as a necessity to at least limp it to a better spot to bail out over, seeing as they tip like overloaded hippos at the slightest damage, just like BC2. I'm pretty ambivalent for infantry and vehicles, I never once during the beta said to myself "If not for regenerating health, I would have won that/couldn't have won that without regenerating health". In the long term, most tankers play engineer to repair their own vehicles, just like a lot of infantry types play assault and have health packs. It's there if you can find it, and it helps, but it's not really enough to break the game one way or the other.
                    Good points about tankers going engineer to heal themselves and medic Rambos! As to the medic always saw them as a less powerful assault where being a medic should be their primary job, not secondary. That is why in the mod I worked on we tried to tone down the medics available weapons compared to assault and gave him smoke nades so his focus should have been to keep his squad and team alive. DICE may think people would find that boring but TF2 has a FULLY dedicated medic with super weak weapons that tons of people play... so IMO it is all in the design.
                    Battlefield Samurai 'Banzaaaiii!!!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                      The TF2 example is a good way to do it, but I must point out that the Medic's weapons are just as powerful as the rest of the team's, if not moreso in some cases. It's all about synergy. Though I'm picturing an assault running after an obese support gunner with box full of candy and other sweets now.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with matt. Its hard to say what it will be like in final. I dont think it matters for infantry. On or off. Tg people throw medpacks any way so i really dont get that excited about it "destroying teamwork" the medpacks there on the ground already. Was always like that in bf2 and 2142 so its a no brainer with the same crowd that it will be that way in bf3. If you have to call to your medic in your squad then i would think thats a bigger issue.
                        We'll have to see what final holds i guess. We dont even know if it can be turned off. I would like to see what vanilla has to offer before worrying about health regen.

                        Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk
                        "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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                        • #13
                          Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                          What are the cornerstones of TG? Maturity, teamwork, and gameplay in a near-simulation environment.
                          Do I promote or hinder any one of those three cornerstones through regenerating health and armor?

                          There is less need for medics and less need for engineers - I think this discourages teamwork and promotes lone-wolf type play. My personal opinion is a "no" for regenerating health, with due reservations (as Skud stated) to seeing how the game pans out after release.

                          I'm not so intent on saying "NO REGEN HEALTH" - rather, I'm more interested in saying "yeah, this looks like it would promote more teamwork and make team dynamics more interesting - let's do that!"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                            Originally posted by Zhohar View Post
                            What are the cornerstones of TG? Maturity, teamwork, and gameplay in a near-simulation environment.
                            Do I promote or hinder any one of those three cornerstones through regenerating health and armor?

                            There is less need for medics and less need for engineers - I think this discourages teamwork and promotes lone-wolf type play. My personal opinion is a "no" for regenerating health, with due reservations (as Skud stated) to seeing how the game pans out after release.

                            I'm not so intent on saying "NO REGEN HEALTH" - rather, I'm more interested in saying "yeah, this looks like it would promote more teamwork and make team dynamics more interesting - let's do that!"
                            My sentiments exactly.
                            theeANGELofDEATH(Steam/Origin)
                            E Pluribus Unum
                            Sarcasm is just another free service I offer
                            Si vis pacem, para bellum .. Molon Labe

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                            • #15
                              Re: Regeneration Health/Armor

                              I think those in the "damage is high so regen should be on" camp are not saying that you die so it does not matter, that would be illogical as specterr points out. I think it is more of along the lines of you die a lot so the few times you do not it is nice. It makes the game less harsh.

                              However do we want less harsh?

                              So some points I see for turning regen on
                              - The game might be balanced for it being on. Having it off would see give an advantage to the defenders, as they generally are set up in stationary positions and can have a health pack always around.
                              - Most of the time someone throws out a med pack (although this one is really dependent)
                              - Suppression plays a bigger role in keeping people from healing. Although I am not sure how much it is used. Mainly because as the shooter it is hard to tell if you are actually suppressing your target. All you know is you are shooting at some rock someone is behind and they may or may not be getting a blurry effect because of it. But maybe this changes with experience.

                              Point for turning it off
                              - It will require teams to stick closer to their medics. Or at least the med packs. This changes how you advance. I am hesitant to say this "increases" teamwork at TG, rather it changes teamwork. The game goes from coordinated rush together, to a more methodical push together.
                              - However you do become more reliant on your team. Like I said I do not think this necessarily equals more team work. I mean you could make it so all soldiers could only move in pairs with each having 1 leg in a potato sack. That obviously would not be a good option.

                              Other thoughts
                              - The game is very cover based. You move from cover to cover. Some spots might not be enough to hold several people behind them to group around a med pack. This can either be good or bad depending on your view.


                              My personal opinion after playing the game a bit is that infantry regen should be off. Simply because it increases reliance on your team. I enjoy that style of teamwork and it might fit better with TG philosophy. That being said I think the game is crazy fun, with lots of tactical depth, and loads of teamplay potential with it regen off...it is also crazy fun, with lots of tactical depth, and loads of teamplay potential with it regen on.

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