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  • Inconvenient spawns

    Last night while I was playing I noticed something interesting, which may be old hat to the beta or BC2 folks, that brought up a small moral quandry.

    On the map that's basically two bridges over a river or canal in an urban setting, one side is assaulting wedge shaped buildings and over the bridges there is a room that has a blown out wall across the road that is near the control point further into the buildings. From that room the access to the control point is choked by an alley, but the room has one fixed spawn spot for that control point right next to some piled boxes and/or sandbags. This spawn point is in the room and out of sight from the rest of the control point radius. Several times I was part of a squad that was able to gain a foothold and push into that room and hold it but get stalemated trying to push into the alley and take that point.

    The diffculty here is that a assaulting squad that controls that room is pretty much de facto spawn camping that spawn spot as long as they are contesting over the alley. Many times enemies would spawn in that room in the midst of a full squad+ and get mowed down instantly. Before I realized what was happening I just reacted to the enemy and dropped them. Then once I saw the pattern I felt bad about camping that spot due to the stalemate at the alley so I stopped, but every subsequent time that I didn't just light them up as they spawned they came out guns blazing and it seemed that usually they were blazing at me. Not a single time did anyone that spawned at that position attempt to get out of the room while I was there, it was either that they insta-died as someone spawn popped them or they took someone out in a blaze of glory to be cut down right after.

    I don't recall this situation coming up much, if at all, while I played 2142, and granted people should be spawning on their Squad Leader anyways, but my question is what is the optimal response to this situation? Simply spawn camping this location while your squad is trying to take the objective feels like taking advantage of the game mechanics, but if you give people the benefit of the doubt and don't open fire all you seem to get in return is a face full of bullets. On the flip side, it also seems that it's taking advantage of the mechanics to allow the defending team to simply have someone be able to pop in the midst of the defenders to wreak havok. If the assaulting team was able to take the objective quickly it wouldn't matter that much as exposure to the problem would be brief, but due to the nature of the map at this location it seems to cause a much longer term back and forth over the alley once the room has been adequately secured.
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  • #2
    Re: Inconvenient spawns

    I think I know the room your talking about. The flag and the spawn points are in the same small enclosed area (like a high walled courtyard). I was one of those spawning into the fray, but I did not think the assaulting squad was doing anything wrong. Its inconvenient, feels weird, but you don't have any choice because that is the way the map was made.

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    • #3
      Re: Inconvenient spawns

      I've noticed BF3 has a tendency to not quite read a battle in progress when it determines spawns. It obviously has some measure of trying to spawn players away, but in any highly mobile close quarters battle, by the time you've spawned in and oriented, you may be dead. What I feel is important is the spirit of the rule here, in that intentionally camping what you know to be a spawn is a nono, but I admit to my fair share of mag dumping into a squad leader, only to have his squadmember spawn in behind him and instantly kill him too. There's just nothing that can really be done to prevent it.

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      • #4
        Re: Inconvenient spawns

        Originally posted by mat552 View Post
        but I admit to my fair share of mag dumping into a squad leader, only to have his squadmember spawn in behind him and instantly kill him too. There's just nothing that can really be done to prevent it.
        To be fair, this occurrence has happened in I believe every Battlefield game to date. The inherent risk to spawning on a squad mate or squad leader is that you are more likely to spawn into enemy fire than if you spawned on a control point.

        That being said, I've seen the same thing as the OP on Seine Crossing and Grand Bazaar. There are certain areas where the team holding the control point may end up spawning in a part of the flag radius that the enemy is waiting in. I would've thought BF3 would have a system like Modern Warfare 2 had, where if an enemy is looking at a spawn location, the game automatically kills/deactivates that spawn point and spawns the waiting players in a "safe(r)" location. I guess the best that can be done is to not spawn on a point where you were just mowed done twice. Maybe there's some kind of Gentleman's Agreement that could come from this, to not sit on a location for any length of time where you are seeing the enemy magically pop in over and over again.

        "Over the din of battle could be heard Lancerís maniacal laughter and it spurned us on to stay the course, not to give up, and enjoy." - Grimmfist

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        • #5
          Re: Inconvenient spawns

          There's nothing wrong with killing an enemy soldier at his spawn point, long as you are in the process of assaulting an objective, and not intentionally going out of your way to do it. The spawn screen always shows you an active map of whats going on the battlefield, so that players can gauge the risk of certain areas and make a decision where to spawn. Sometimes, the choice is risky, and sometimes you have bad luck. That's just the way of the game.

          Now, if your team knew every possible spawn point for an objective, and organized a way to cover those points and kill spawning enemies, I would consider that to be on the 'cheap' side, but this is a war game, and wars ain't always pretty.

          However, if you did the above *and* avoided contesting the objective so you could prolong enemy spawn rates and get more kills, that is abuse and should be a bannable offense.

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          • #6
            Re: Inconvenient spawns

            Originally posted by tkarmadragon View Post

            Now, if your team knew every possible spawn point for an objective, and organized a way to cover those points and kill spawning enemies, I would consider that to be on the 'cheap' side, but this is a war game, and wars ain't always pretty.
            This isn't welcome in these parts, ya heard? ;)
            |TG-12th| Namebot

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            • #7
              Re: Inconvenient spawns

              Among other complaints, spawning is a real big issue for me.

              Issue #1: Spawning in front of an enemy
              Say you spawn at a point. The first thing you see is a tank or enemy facing your direction. Well, there went 20 seconds of nothing. I don't know how, but the game needs to recognize where enemies are in relation to where it's going to spawn you. It makes no sense to spawn directly in a danger area.

              Issue #2: Enemies spawning in a secured location
              This one bugs me the most. Grand Bazaar (the one where B is called "Alleyway") has a lot of nooks and crannies where many rooms are essentially dead ends. Knowing it's a dead end, it makes perfect strategical sense to secure the room and establish position at or facing the doorway, after all, you shouldn't be flanked. While capping the flag, the enemies sees it flashing, spawns on that flag, and happens to spawn right behind you for the easy kill. How are we supposed to defend against the random chance an enemy spawns behind us?

              Great game, still needs LOTS of work.


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              • #8
                Re: Inconvenient spawns

                Agree with you all. I have also found that I will spawn with a full squad on a flag... The Bridge at Seine is pretty bad, along with the office spawn point at A are the same way. Not much fun when you spawn with an enemy squad, kind of funny when they kill each other when you open fire on them.

                Worst spawn point is at the Market(C) on Bazaar that spawns the US players 50 yards from the nearby Russian UCB. Brilliant!
                theeANGELofDEATH(Steam/Origin)
                E Pluribus Unum
                Sarcasm is just another free service I offer
                Si vis pacem, para bellum .. Molon Labe

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                • #9
                  Re: Inconvenient spawns

                  I don't think there is a problem in the courtyards in Seineor whatever map its called. Like other conquest maps, spawning on a flag that's being taken generally puts you on the outskirts of the capzone. The outskirts in this case would be on the streets, which would be super odd to see soldiers pop up randomly in the street. The attacker OR defender has an advantage inside the courtyard, but this depends on the team.

                  The team that defends it before attackers get there have a huge advantage in holding them off until reinforcements flank. The attackers who get inside before defenders get there can generally cap the flag + defend from inside. Both sides have these types of spawn zones. The key however to the map is defending squads from crossing the river while holding C so you can bleed them out and play defensively. The former only happens when there are holes in the defense that lead to this.

                  The other solution (for me anyways) is to bring the tank/LAV to the corridor and provide cover for the attacker/defender on both entrances.

                  The issue with Market in Bazaar is that its difficult to take due to the infinite places to get shot from (mainly because people DONT know how to take the market without exposing themselves). A lot of this is just learning so give people time to think and learn. The square on bazaar is equally challenging due to the fact that all the cover in that area is basically saying, come kill me because you know I'm here.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Inconvenient spawns

                    That use to be a problem in BC2 till they fixed it by adding more areas around the objective where it can spawn you and chooses the area with the least amount of enemies close to it. So far though that hasn't been the case with BF3 as I have spawn face to face with enemies or even at times directly in the middle of cross-fire only to be killed in a split second the screen shows. >.<



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