[AAR] Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

[Amplitudo]

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3...8/1/329916407/

(Project was in the squad, but he dropped right before the game ended)

I thought this was a good game, well played by both sides.

My team (the defending team) got pushed off of every flag other than F and G very quickly at the start. I tried to take my squad across the river from F to A but the US LAV was always in position looking over the river towards F, so we were never able to seriously threaten A.

At this point we had managed to retake Echo and I noticed E-Male calling for everyone to focus on the hard push up to Delta from Echo, and since nothing else was working, I committed my squad to banging our heads against the defensive wall the other team had in place between Charlie and Delta. After a few failed attempts at moving up the hill I told my squad to stop trying to fight enemy infantry, and just break through the wall. After a few tries we were able to find a hole in the wall and get behind their lines without being spotted. We were able to quickly cap Delta and then engaged in at least ten minutes of intense firefights as we lost, recapped, and ultimately lost Delta to superior numbers. I was particularly impressed when my squad did the revive shuffle and outlasted a relentless assault on the second floor of the building on Delta.

Our efforts on Delta allowed our team to take Charlie and as the game ended we were solidly entrenched on four flags to their three, unfortunately we were too far behind to catch up. But I was happy to be able to go down fighting, to see teamwork and effort put into pushing off of having just two flags and ending the game with four.

[Skud]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

Great AAR. I'd like to hear E-Male's input :)

[Grunt 70]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

I was on this round as well and led a squad with Bamboo, Manner, Kilted Yak and myself. That push on Suburbs was epic. We fought up and down the right flank on the stairs and on the hillside on the edge of the map. Credit is due the enemy for really making us pay in tickets for the eventual capture. Eventually my squad looped around towards Market as Suburbs fell and we helped capture and defend that flag for the rest of the round. We tried one foray to Hotel and made it most of the way to the capzone but an enemy squad wiped us out and we retreated to the trains. The long firefight on the ramp up to Suburbs really hurt us in tickets.

I think Suburbs is a key flag on this map.

It was a good fight.

[E-Male]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

Funny, I was going to post a note about a defensive strategy for Karkand based on last night's round.

During the round mentioned in this thread I deployed my squad along the rail line by the river and used two fireteams to defend Echo and keep an eye on Gulf and Foxtrot. We only briefly lost Foxtrot and Echo -- both were retaken almost instantly with the aide of the rest of the team.

My strategy was to use my squad to prevent enemy from taking Echo or crossing the river to Gulf or Foxtrot. In this I believe we were successful and the effort was not wasted. It freed up the team to advance and prevented a constant back and forth across the river. My squad cannot take sole credit for this, of course, as others in the team were in these zones.

Throughout the round I repeatedly told the team what we were doing and requested that they focus on Delta -- I am glad the message was heard.

We were subject to constant mortar bombardment and snipers but managed to frustrate any enemy infiltration from A, B, and C.

Somewhere around the final 200 tickets I led my squad in an attack on Delta as what must have been Amplitudo's squad was making progress in that direction. They secured Delta before we arrived and I immediately recalled my men to our former defensive positions at Echo and the rail line. I order this attack and risked our flags as it was clear to me that we would lose if we did not secure a fourth flag very soon. From this point on our team shifted the balance of flags but it was too little too late.

I had a runtime error with fraps so was unable to record the strategy but will do so soon.

I wondered at times if I was wasting the team's resources then reminded myself that defense against constant attempts of infiltration is never a waste.

I also wondered if the team was aware of my chat messages and responded.

Commendations to my squad members for their patience in holding a difficult position and precision and speed in responding to my orders:

Sarge
Atatron
Red-Dwarf

It was a fine battle.

[TheSc1entist]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

This AAR meshes well with the other discussion we are having on defense. In this particular situation, maintaining control of the flags was of vital importance. We defended certain flags at certain times.

I remember E-male accidentally typing something along the lines: "Go get D, we will defend E."
While our team recognized the importance of D, we refocused our attention and prioritized that flag as something to capture/maintain if that ever fell to enemy hands.

We had a few fights along A, but our squad focused on defending the back flags and moved between A and D. We let the rest of the team maintain the forward positions at C and more importantly the ramp between D and E.

In this case my defending squad:squad E, recognized the importance of certain flags and kept constant vigilance to wipe out infiltrators so that our team could do the more important work of maintaining the defensive perimeter.


Looking back, if you keep banging your head against a strong wall, you will get nowhere. Find a crack and slip through to something less well protected. A is a prime example. It's far removed, the chances of defenders watching that flag is considerably lower. Use a tank to break through to A and force the defending team to reposition. I would give up E entirely just to allow the defending team to let themselves spread thin. Taking G and F are near impossible since attacking those points would force us to cross the bridge which is near impossible. Capturing E exposes yourself from near constant fire from C and D. Sometimes you have to relinquish control to gain better positioning.

[E-Male]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

Indeed, but to relinquish control of Echo and the defensive of the rail line (if that is what you are suggesting) would have opened up G and F (which were under constant threat and thinly defended) and risked our being confined across the river to the old Karkand standoff.

I do not think there is any error in holding on to G F and E under the conditions we were faced with.

There is an error in telling the enemy what the plan is!

Next time I will resort to extensive misinformation and propaganda!

[TheSc1entist]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

We thought that's what you were doing,messing with our head. It works, to an extent.
In our minds: There's no way E-male would type that on ALL chat!?!?

Back on topic,
It's true, I guess the old Karkand standoff would be those two flags, but I would say: give up E in exchange for A.
It's high risk, but the rewards are enormous:
You force the defending team to reposition which in many cases is really hard. Some people are not willing to give up their spot along a defensive perimeter.
In situations like these, doing something risky is the only way to shake things up.
Use the train-cars as a defensive barrier to get closer to A.

[E-Male]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

Also, the chances of a tank making its way from F or G to A past well defended A C and D and under heavy mortar fire when the enemy has a clearly established front line and an uphill advantage (clear lines of fire on the tank) is slim to none.

The tank would not have made it across the river.

[E-Male]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

We thought that's what you were doing,messing with our head. It works, to an extent.
In our minds: There's no way E-male would type that on ALL chat!?!?

Back on topic,
It's true, I guess the old Karkand standoff would be those two flags, but I would say: give up E in exchange for A.
It's high risk, but the rewards are enormous:
You force the defending team to reposition which in many cases is really hard. Some people are not willing to give up their spot along a defensive perimeter.
In situations like these, doing something risky is the only way to shake things up.
Use the train-cars as a defensive barrier to get closer to A.

A good plan, and one that I will likely use (after typing the opposite in ALL chat).

It is true, as you suggest, risks must be taken.

[Amplitudo]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

Oh how I was trying to get my squad to Alpha, but it simply was not working. The US LAV was sitting on the wall above the stairs that lead up to Alpha, to even get an angle to hit it with an RPG required revealing yourself and getting killed. Taking armor to Alpha, as E-Male pointed out, is just asking to get it blown up. The path through the roads brings you under direct fire from any infantry near Charlie or Bravo, and then you have to turn to face the river and go up a ramp exposing your rear to that same infantry.

I think on the 44 man server there would have been more opportunity to get behind and attack Alpha, but last night there was simply too much infantry massed around Charlie and Bravo for one squad of four players to get through. I did notice, however, that while my squad was fighting for our lives on Delta, we did manage to capture Alpha once or twice. I guess diverting the other teams focus to Delta took their attention off of watching Alpha so vigilantly.

[Squinty]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

Think I was in E-males squad on this round set up in defense on E, I thought the other side was doing pretty well with the mortars as it looked like they were trying to place smoke in support of their infantry, might have been my imagination...

[red-dwarf-001]

Re: Karkand, 10-11pm 12/20/2011

If you give up E,F and G the enemy team would have all of the tanks and LAVs,I think that would be bad.I had a lot of fun playing in your squad that night E-Male,hope I get the chance again.To all you TGers thanks for making BF3 fun to play,I almost gave up on battlefeild then I found TacticalGamer and became a supporting member 3 days later.