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Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

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  • Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)



    Laughter is the best medicine but in this case it wont help the problem at hand.

    What should we players do?
    I know yelling at them won't help.
    Admins are always ready to help and thats great, we don't seem to report much tho*

    I've seen plenty of CQ Rockets but a lot of them now are not being used the right way.
    I use them on walls, buildings and objects to get AOE/Splash damage.

    A lot of people are using them right at a person or squad in the open.

    Is there anything being planned to stop this or kinda change the way RPGs are being used.



  • #2
    Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

    Glad you brought this up. I too have seen TG guys do it. I even called a TG member on using a rocket on one of my squad out in the open in a one on one scenario. I said"That's not the intended use of a rpg bro" too which he responded..."but it's effective"

    Really?.....what the hell is happening to this place. I feel like TG is just 2 letters in front of most peoples names now....they have no concept of what it means. pushing teams back to non caps with armor and just waiting for them to step out. Using weapons in ways they aren't intended for just to get the easy kill.....we were never this way in bf2, we were never this way in 2142, hell we weren't this way in BC2. I was in a squad with another TG vet last night and he asked what has happened? I wish I had an answer to be honest.
    Throw game play and balance aside for a moment and just ask yourself where did the sportsmanship and camaraderie that we used to have in the previous titles go??? The mutual respect for another player that made you want to face him on even terms......not with a frigging RPG. You would never catch me switching from my assault rifle to an RPG to take out lone infantry.
    I can remember pulling back when we had the other team cornered so they had room to get out....it was more fun to let them have a chance instead of score whoring them right out of non cap.

    Now we need plug ins to flip flop teams???? what happened to just changing teams? I can't count how many times myself and a few others have switched from the winning team to the loosing team......now we need a program to do it? I guess I was never that hung up on winning every single round.

    People need to get back to there roots of what we were. Now I get the impression (and I am not alone) It's all about getting the most kills no matter how it's achieved. We lower HP to 75% to make it a bit more in line with TG style of play and suddenly the splash damage weapons become a problem?....hmm that says something about the integrity of our servers players to me. Sc1ence started a thread about it and thankfully it did get back in check. But why on earth did that post have to be made in the first place??? Were adults here....common sense should be very prevalent. If your the TG guy running around with USAS, extended mag, explosive rounds, thermal sites. You may want to ask yourself why the rest of TG isn't........

    I love this community and loved the feel of besting a TG tagged opponent who met me on the battlefield in a FAIR fight. I respected him and he respected me......we need to get back to that.
    Last edited by Ven; 02-22-2012, 07:23 AM.
    "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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    • #3
      Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

      Ven and Full...Keep leading by example, as I'm sure many many TGers are. The other night on Tehran Highway we had pushed the US back to spawn and after a minute or two it was obvious they had trouble even coming down the hill to their first flag without getting rolled. I pulled my squad back to Gas Station and deployed in a defensive posture after telling them we should give them a chance to get out of spawn at least. I had another TGer in with me and he got it immediately but I also had a couple of guys I hadn't seen before and I'm pretty sure this made an impression not soon to be forgotten. I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I guess I'm trying to say there are scenarios that set us apart from other communities. It's easy to lose sight of that but keep the faith.

      When the server is full or we have difficulty squadding up sometimes the 1st will pub raid just to get some IHS time in and the gameplay we see elsewhere on a regular basis is disheartening. After a round or two we always seem to quit the madness and head back to the TG server because we know the standards ARE higher than elsewhere. Keep leading by example is the mantra.

      And as far as rockets are concerned....sometimes it's discretionary and that discretion can easily be seen in the wrong light. At the B flag on Karkand recently I was engaging armor at C from the roof of B. Suddently I'm getting shot at from the promenade and turn towards the threat as he hides in a store front. I don't see him and so let loose an RPG at his last known position. Bang-rocket hits inside the store front and he's dead. The guy on the other end might think I had the RPG up as a primary but that's not the case. It's a valid reaction though. If I had 320's I would've lofted one in the store front as well. Enemy was there but hiding under cover. Certainly valid but again could easily have been misinterpreted. Here is something similar to ponder. If I'm engaging armor with an RPG and I get ambushed by someone coming around the corner and I still have the rpg up I'm firing that rocket to defend myself. It's him or me with no time to switch weapons. There is nothing wrong with that but it could easily be misconstrued as using rockets as a primary weapon. Clearly that's not the case.

      Give yourself a broad range of interpretation on the issue and that will go a long way to easing the tension in this community over this subject. I've been playing on TG servers since June of 2005 and honestly I don't see it worse than it's ever been. The same issues were discussed in 2005 and beyond as they are now and we all deserve credit for that long running cognizance. Sure there will be instances where your concerns are valid but we are a world apart from most of the servers out there.
      Last edited by Grunt 70; 02-22-2012, 01:41 PM.
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      |TG-1st|Grunt
      ARMA Admin (retired)
      Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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      • #4
        Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

        It seems to me like we have had this discussion in other threads before.

        Look, I get that people think that using some of the weapons in the game is not TG, I just don't see that as a game breaking issue.
        What I am tired of is the complaining going on in the chat. You took an RPG to the face, ok, that sucks and is not a very elegant way of taking you out. That person that took you out might agree with you, but felt that that was the best way to go about it at that moment.

        Sometimes playing on TG I get the sense that getting some players with ANY weapon is very un-TG.
        Like: What!? using the USAS in close quarters? oh man what a noob.
        Or: Seriously dude, using that assault rifle is exploiting the weapon balance in the game.

        I get that the RPG is an easy target since many players use that, but for me the weapon really does not matter. If a TG-tagged player runs around with the RPG as his/her main weapon, well, I would get a bit annoyed. I don't think I would call them out in the chat, I would hope they would come around and realize themselves that it is not a very effective strategy. Calling them out on it "in public" would just make it worse I think. Still I get where you are coming from.

        In BC2 using the CG on infantry was frowned upon and so we agreed that we should not use in that fashion. I feel that it is different with the RPG since it takes forever to reload and has what I percieve as a "delay" when firing it, this makes it less effective against troops.

        If there was a rule or something that said that the RPG is for vehicles only I would happily agree to that, I hardly ever use the RPG anyways.

        If we could have an admin making a statement on how some of the weapons in the game should be used that would clear some of these issues up.
        To be honest, until then, I will get bothered a little everytime someone says that another player is using a weapon wrong, According to whom or what?

        Another way to go about is to lead with example. Some players might be new to TG.
        What about sending a pm to that player with some constructive criticism, using the chat is not very effective in my mind.

        I'd also like to say that I do feel that some weapons are more "tactically sound" than others. I don't feel superior, skill wise, when getting kills with the RPG for example. What I can do is to try and live up to the TG standard so I can be certain that I am at least doing something right.


        We are here to have fun, right?
        "Nemo Saltat Sobrius, Nisi Forte Insanit"

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        • #5
          Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

          Originally posted by Lien View Post
          It seems to me like we have had this discussion in other threads before.

          Look, I get that people think that using some of the weapons in the game is not TG, I just don't see that as a game breaking issue.
          What I am tired of is the complaining going on in the chat. You took an RPG to the face, ok, that sucks and is not a very elegant way of taking you out. That person that took you out might agree with you, but felt that that was the best way to go about it at that moment.

          Sometimes playing on TG I get the sense that getting some players with ANY weapon is very un-TG.
          Like: What!? using the USAS in close quarters? oh man what a noob.
          Or: Seriously dude, using that assault rifle is exploiting the weapon balance in the game.

          I get that the RPG is an easy target since many players use that, but for me the weapon really does not matter. If a TG-tagged player runs around with the RPG as his/her main weapon, well, I would get a bit annoyed. I don't think I would call them out in the chat, I would hope they would come around and realize themselves that it is not a very effective strategy. Calling them out on it "in public" would just make it worse I think. Still I get where you are coming from.

          In BC2 using the CG on infantry was frowned upon and so we agreed that we should not use in that fashion. I feel that it is different with the RPG since it takes forever to reload and has what I percieve as a "delay" when firing it, this makes it less effective against troops.

          If there was a rule or something that said that the RPG is for vehicles only I would happily agree to that, I hardly ever use the RPG anyways.

          If we could have an admin making a statement on how some of the weapons in the game should be used that would clear some of these issues up.
          To be honest, until then, I will get bothered a little everytime someone says that another player is using a weapon wrong, According to whom or what?

          Another way to go about is to lead with example. Some players might be new to TG.
          What about sending a pm to that player with some constructive criticism, using the chat is not very effective in my mind.

          I'd also like to say that I do feel that some weapons are more "tactically sound" than others. I don't feel superior, skill wise, when getting kills with the RPG for example. What I can do is to try and live up to the TG standard so I can be certain that I am at least doing something right.


          We are here to have fun, right?
          Lein this isn't about the weapon so much as the mentality. Do you really think in a lone 1 on 1 situation the rpg is the weapon to use? Keep in mind this:

          1) Create an environment conducive for mature gamers to enjoy the games they play without the everyday interference from the less-than-mature gamers.

          2) Create an environment where there was mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.

          3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

          Again....it's about the mentality behind it in my eyes, I'm not arguing rpg usage. There are times to use it against infantry and we all know what those situations are. One on one in the open is not it. that needs to start clicking in peoples heads....even if it means dying. It's a cheap use of it to get the kill plain and simple unarguable. If use like that does't bother you.....it should. Are we not supposed to do this:

          3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

          I still feel people are hung up on the rpg part....that's not the point people. The point is the mentality that its ok. if you wear TG tags than #3 of the primer in my eyes says the action I called out is not correct. To get the response I did shows people just don't care what the primer means. I feel like a dog chasing my ass on these subjects because people still focus on the weapon part. The weapons not the problem,....unfortunately the people are, or rather their mentality about it.
          "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

            Off topic, but I thought we already had a thread for this.

            http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-infantry.html

            "Over the din of battle could be heard Lancerís maniacal laughter and it spurned us on to stay the course, not to give up, and enjoy." - Grimmfist

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

              Originally posted by TheLancerMancer View Post
              Off topic, but I thought we already had a thread for this.

              http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-infantry.html
              well that one didn't work....so we started a new one:icon25:
              "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                I agree. It's the game itself to a certain extent. I have not seen a game in my time that basically encourages spawn killing more than BF3 does.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                  I am still new to the community so take this with a grain of salt. This weekend I was sick with a head cold decided to take my mind off it by playing a few rounds on the 54man map. I join and automaticaly go to the squad screen as grouping up is important to me as it lets me get to know people in the community and get some time with different SL's on differing playstyles, I am always trying to improve myself and my Tactics.

                  Now I cant remember which map it was, but here is what I seen.

                  Check Alpha squad oh sweet only 2 in there I will join, they engies and seem to be in helo from what I hear on TS. I say to myself ok sounds good I will find another so I dont screw up their com's.

                  Check Bravo it has 3 in it, all engies oh they must be a tank crew I have seen them work before this way. No worries I will keep going down the list.

                  This is when I got frustrated with my fellow TG members.

                  24 freeking engineers, that is right there was not one other kit being run I checked every squad out there and then counted the armor available on the maps. This made me laugh and enough to actually type in game to /team "well I will bring a soflam I guess since everyone is an engi hope you got Javs :)"

                  I was very disapointed at our community, I know that there is some call for having anti tank or armor on armor but would you actually take that many engies into battle without some re-supply or a Medic realistically?

                  I dont know what else to say I lasted that round and actually left OUR SERVERS to pub it as I was getting frustrated at trying to snipe and use my Soflam from the rocks and then having 5 yes 5 SMAW's loosed on my position all within 2 seconds of each other.

                  So as to the main point. I agree that RPG's have there place in the game. Anti-tank, removing cover to access the enemy who is hiding behind it but is there really a need for 5 SMAW's to take out 1 guy? This is such a waste of reasources that it is not even funny.

                  I Wish that the admin could limit them to 3-5 per engie thus forcing the team to at least have a support class in the squad, but that is game mechanics and nothing we can do about it.

                  I can be 99% positive that you WILL NOT see me using the RPG's in the game unless it is on Armor or to remove cover that the enemy is hiding behind so I can shoot them. The other 1% is when player x flanks me and I panic and fire point blank taking both of us down.

                  Their are a few players who would not use the SMAW to get that sniper instead using TACTICS to remove him via flanking or anti sniper. These are our respectable players and we all know them we look up to them for guidance, but we also need to follow these examples ourselfs and not fall into the run and gun mentality of the other 98% of the players and servers out there.

                  I came to TG and support TG and enjoy the people at TG due to the nature of the community where we want to be better than everyone else as we have a "Code" we live by where we try to put some realisim into a unrealistic game, but it seems that the Tactical part is deminishing even in the 4 months I have been apart of this community.

                  Sorry for what seems like a rant it is not this is me giving another persepective to this Great Community but since I seen a new post about this topic and the recent experiences I have had I decided to actually put in my 2cents this time.

                  Respectfully

                  Volchok
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                    I play early on the server, which is late euro-time and I have never seen a TG player use a weapon in a way that is against the primer. Just to counterweight the negativity in this thread.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                      Originally posted by Ven View Post
                      Lein this isn't about the weapon so much as the mentality. Do you really think in a lone 1 on 1 situation the rpg is the weapon to use? Keep in mind this:

                      1) Create an environment conducive for mature gamers to enjoy the games they play without the everyday interference from the less-than-mature gamers.

                      2) Create an environment where there was mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.

                      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

                      Again....it's about the mentality behind it in my eyes, I'm not arguing rpg usage. There are times to use it against infantry and we all know what those situations are. One on one in the open is not it. that needs to start clicking in peoples heads....even if it means dying. It's a cheap use of it to get the kill plain and simple unarguable. If use like that does't bother you.....it should. Are we not supposed to do this:

                      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.

                      I still feel people are hung up on the rpg part....that's not the point people. The point is the mentality that its ok. if you wear TG tags than #3 of the primer in my eyes says the action I called out is not correct. To get the response I did shows people just don't care what the primer means. I feel like a dog chasing my ass on these subjects because people still focus on the weapon part. The weapons not the problem,....unfortunately the people are, or rather their mentality about it.
                      Thank you for clarifying what you meant, at first glance I saw this thread as just one of those other threads.

                      I agree with most of what you are saying, and as Grunt pointed out the difference between the TG server and public servers is huge.

                      I still feel that until the admin team sets up specific terms on our server there is not anything anyone can do about it.
                      It is very hard to "fix" something that the game encourages you to do, I guess I am saying that BF3 is not very TG friendly, at least not as much as the BF games prior to BC2. This leads, in my mind, to a confusion on what is desired behavior on the server. I can't connect this discussion to maturity to be honest.

                      The confusion also arises because it is so hard to filter out the people who call you out in the chat. Often times someone gets called out in the chat because the guy who got killed for the 10th time in a row simply got frustrated, they just could not take getting killed. This makes it harder to see the "true" situations when someone acts badly.
                      All in all I just feel that the atmosphere on the TG server sometimes gets really tedious, with people complaining left to right.

                      To answer you question if I think it is ok to use the RPG in a one on one situation, I'd say that it depends.
                      I know what you mean here, looking at it as a black or white question I would say of course not. If I was out of bullets for my SMG, perhaps reloading as I come across you, I would not hesitate to take out my RPG and fire it. I would not be proud of it or write "U mad bro?" in the chat. I would feel a bit dirty and think ahead next time.

                      BF3 houses many players from different backgrounds, so what is considered good conduct differs between us. I for example see BF3 as an extension of BC2 and as such I play it that way. I run from flag to flag, always try to be mobile and flank (unless my SL tells me to defend a specific spot of course). Players coming from BF2 or BF2142 to BF3 might have a very different understanding on how the game should be played.

                      Like I said in my previously I'd like to see a specific ruleset from the admins, I think that would clear some things up.
                      "Nemo Saltat Sobrius, Nisi Forte Insanit"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                        Originally posted by Lien View Post
                        Thank you for clarifying what you meant, at first glance I saw this thread as just one of those other threads.

                        I agree with most of what you are saying, and as Grunt pointed out the difference between the TG server and public servers is huge.

                        I still feel that until the admin team sets up specific terms on our server there is not anything anyone can do about it.
                        It is very hard to "fix" something that the game encourages you to do, I guess I am saying that BF3 is not very TG friendly, at least not as much as the BF games prior to BC2. This leads, in my mind, to a confusion on what is desired behavior on the server. I can't connect this discussion to maturity to be honest.

                        The confusion also arises because it is so hard to filter out the people who call you out in the chat. Often times someone gets called out in the chat because the guy who got killed for the 10th time in a row simply got frustrated, they just could not take getting killed. This makes it harder to see the "true" situations when someone acts badly.
                        All in all I just feel that the atmosphere on the TG server sometimes gets really tedious, with people complaining left to right.

                        To answer you question if I think it is ok to use the RPG in a one on one situation, I'd say that it depends.
                        I know what you mean here, looking at it as a black or white question I would say of course not. If I was out of bullets for my SMG, perhaps reloading as I come across you, I would not hesitate to take out my RPG and fire it. I would not be proud of it or write "U mad bro?" in the chat. I would feel a bit dirty and think ahead next time.

                        BF3 houses many players from different backgrounds, so what is considered good conduct differs between us. I for example see BF3 as an extension of BC2 and as such I play it that way. I run from flag to flag, always try to be mobile and flank (unless my SL tells me to defend a specific spot of course). Players coming from BF2 or BF2142 to BF3 might have a very different understanding on how the game should be played.

                        Like I said in my previously I'd like to see a specific ruleset from the admins, I think that would clear some things up.
                        The admins have stated repeatedly that they would rather have players police themselves. Or, to put it a better way, the community should police itself. I don't think they want to create so many rules and also have to enforce those rules.

                        My solution would be to just communicate to people who repeatedly have this kind of mentality (discussed above) and just say 'Hey, we operate by a different set of principles, would you mind not spamming the RPG all over the place' etc. Done in a friendly and tactful manner, most reasonable people will comply.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                          Originally posted by QuantumQrack View Post
                          My solution would be to just communicate to people who repeatedly have this kind of mentality (discussed above) and just say 'Hey, we operate by a different set of principles, would you mind not spamming the RPG all over the place' etc. Done in a friendly and tactful manner, most reasonable people will comply.
                          I agree with this, the problem so far is that these calls for a change in behavior lacks friendly and tactful wording, specifically those made in the chat in game.
                          "Nemo Saltat Sobrius, Nisi Forte Insanit"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                            Originally posted by QuantumQrack View Post
                            The admins have stated repeatedly that they would rather have players police themselves. Or, to put it a better way, the community should police itself. I don't think they want to create so many rules and also have to enforce those rules.

                            My solution would be to just communicate to people who repeatedly have this kind of mentality (discussed above) and just say 'Hey, we operate by a different set of principles, would you mind not spamming the RPG all over the place' etc. Done in a friendly and tactful manner, most reasonable people will comply.
                            Thats the problem with trying to police ourselves, anyone that brings up undesirable behavior or usage in the forums starts a huge debate that gets long winded or never gets solved. There are those that think anything is ok as long as you dont bunny hop..... that's not correct. If policing ourselves worked there would be no need for law enforcement in the world.....it just doesn't work. This is a slippery slope to be sure. One I alone don't have an answer for.
                            I do know 2 things:
                            1. I haven't liked the gameplay on TG servers lately
                            2. My expectations of fellow TG members hasn't changed.....which means something else has.
                            "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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                            • #15
                              Re: Its a whisper in the wind but... (RPGS)

                              Originally posted by Lien View Post
                              I agree with this, the problem so far is that these calls for a change in behavior lacks friendly and tactful wording, specifically those made in the chat in game.
                              Yeah, I hear you on that. For me, I would never admonish anybody, or ask somebody to change their tactic, except privately in TeamSpeak or through an Admin. (unless you really know the person and the current players well --as in a TG focused scrim or tournament.)

                              Doing it in-game via chat just never seems to work well.

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