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Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

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  • Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

    I was on Tehran Highway last night, on US side, and we had just lost the last flag. My experience with being on the US side and losing all the flags it was mostly a no win scenario with little to no cover to come out of the deployment area. Not wanting to give up and do something different I told my squad "I'm breaking out my Mortars"! I figured we needed some mortar fire to breakup the defensive positions that were aimed at the main road as our troops were coming down. Plus it puts out lots of smoke and thunder causing some enemy confusion as to what's going on.

    Then I got called out by the Admins saying I could not do that. In all fairness I forgot about the shooting out of uncap rule. So I moved up and still that was not good enough. If I pick a spot out of the deployment and mortar, I'm gonna get shot right away! No place is safe once you are out of the uncap.

    But in all fairness, the mortar teams are suppose to be behind the front lines in a semi-safe spot. And if there is no available flag what are you gonna do? You got to fire from the deployment zone. And besides, any enemy mortar can take you out easily. It's a one shot deal. I've taken enemy mortars before from their uncap and I believe that happened alot during our last scrim!

    So I feel this should be up to discussion.

  • #2
    Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

    I feel you're going to get a lot of "Then don't use the mortar" answers.

    However I understand what you are saying. In order to re-take a point you may need to use your uncap as a base of fire. On Tehran this is especially so for those on top of the hill. You're completely exposed running down the face of a cliff. Smoke may help but it really just slows an inevitable death by 320s, opposing mortar fire, RPGs, and snipers.

    I do not condone firing out of the base but some precedent should be set for certain maps considering their proximity to objectives.
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    • #3
      Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

      -The M224 Mortar can no longer be deployed in an area that is out of combat for another team like a home base or other protected spawn.
      From the upcoming patch changelog.
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      • #4
        Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

        Well the most obvious fact here is the map design sucks and it's the same for several of the maps.

        The Uncap area for the US on Tehran Highway is located in a horrible location from which you have very little choices of advancement once all the flags are taken and they are parked outside the base shooting everything that moves. Try and go down the left side and you are forced into the road. Nevermind there are all those building there you can't use them which is moronic for the map design. Go down the right side and you are left with a large open area that can be easily covered and your only good avenue is across the highway, through a wall, across an open ground area and road to Flag C. It sucks and is one of the most frustrating map designs I've seen in BF3. That map designer should have been slapped repeatedly for such an obvious mistake.

        Another location that sucks in on the RUS uncap on Grand Bazaar where once you are pinned in your uncap your choices to leave are limited to the death ally to the left, an open street straight ahead or a pinned in area to the right where you can't go through the buildings again.

        Frankly I have no earthly idea why you have so many buildings that you can't even use to gain access. Why even put them there? Useless decoration.
        .
        "Young gamers assault while Older gamers flank."
        "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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        • #5
          Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

          Tehran Hwy is one of those map designs that does not allow you much cover to leave the US uncap. You either run down the road or down the hill and in most cases in close proximity to the other side. You essentially get trapped in the uncap without many options. I played that round and I know what you are talking about. It can get confusing on both sides. On the other side of it we were looking at sniper scope glint on the top of the hill and taking random fire. When some fire was returned BleedingKnee appropriately typed something in chat like "hey we are in the uncap". He was probably looking without firing while some return fire came in response to others. The map structure makes it a bit of a mess on the front line.

          Our SL TonydeSnipa (sp) suggested "hey, this is boring, lets pull back and give them a chance to get something going". Our squad pulled back a little to allow some room to maneuver. When we get pressed with map design issues that may be the best approach. Trying to establish if you can fire out of UCB protected on these maps but not those, IMO will create more of a mess. I think most of us like good firefights between teams vs pinning someone in a hopeless corner. That is no fun for anyone.

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          • #6
            Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

            Originally posted by jb4 View Post

            Our SL TonydeSnipa (sp) suggested "hey, this is boring, lets pull back and give them a chance to get something going". Our squad pulled back a little to allow some room to maneuver. When we get pressed with map design issues that may be the best approach. Trying to establish if you can fire out of UCB protected on these maps but not those, IMO will create more of a mess. I think most of us like good firefights between teams vs pinning someone in a hopeless corner. That is no fun for anyone.
            Kudos for this and also to my SL Lunn for ordering same. We fell back a bit to let U.S. establish a foothold. On our server, for this situation, this is really the right approach given the deficiency of the map design.
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            |TG-1st|Grunt
            ARMA Admin (retired)
            Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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            • #7
              When we pushed a team back to noncap on bf2 we used to back off, let them out of noncap and usually let them take the closest flag. Atleast that's how the old TG did things.

              Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
              "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

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              • #8
                Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                But in all fairness, the mortar teams are suppose to be behind the front lines in a semi-safe spot. And if there is no available flag what are you gonna do? You got to fire from the deployment zone. And besides, any enemy mortar can take you out easily.
                Then they are shooting mortars into 'your' uncap and then you have a right mess.


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                • #9
                  Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                  I'm going to put this out there for consideration. Let mortars attack out of UCB. In the sense of real world tactics, that would be where they would be fired from. But, the only response to it are counter mortars. Yes, we would be allowing indirect fire upon the UCB. The mortar fire shows up on the minimap, so it's not like they have to blind fire into the UCB. And trust me, it's obvious if mortar fire is blind or targeted. If the mortar team is stupid enough to setup the mortars in the middle of a large group of teammates, maybe they just need to be educated on where the mortars should be placed. Using the large number team mates as "Cover" would be frowned upon. Also, if you are stupid enough to run towards a team mate firing mortars rather than keeping your distance, knowing they are able to be counter mortared, you deserve to eat the incoming mortar, IMO.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                    Originally posted by Buflak View Post
                    -The M224 Mortar can no longer be deployed in an area that is out of combat for another team like a home base or other protected spawn.
                    From the upcoming patch changelog.
                    So i guess no one saw this >.>

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                    • #11
                      Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                      Kudos to jb4, Grunt 70 and Ven for their posts. I do believe there is too much forward rush to stop the OpFor from leaving a base at the beginning of a map (Karkand come to mind immediately) and ringing the UCB and shooting the OpFor like the proverbial fish in a barrel when a team controls all the flags. There should be more accountability by we as TG members to police our own and understand we play this game for fun not to see our name at the top of a list. That way Gunney won't have to resort to mortar firing from his UCB because he is tired of being killed as soon as he steps across that imaginary UCB boundary line.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                        I was in Gunny's Squad playing a recon / spotter for this instance and he was right the RU pinned us up the hill with 5 lmg's just taking turns reloading on our front door. During one breakout attempt I was the only one who made it out the door more than 5 feet and managed to get 1/2 way down the hill. This is when Gunny said he would use his mortor to break us a path toward C flag area. The use of the Mortar in this instance I consider a Tactical decision by the SL to break through a defensive line providing the ablity to flank the opfor.

                        I seen the use of the 1 mortar by the SL as more of a tactical break out than a breaking of the primer. I got to go with Gunny on this one. Thanks to those squads that backed off to keep the game going for sake of fun, but just cause some of you are considerate does not mean the other squads are of like mind.

                        This is my personal opinion on this situation

                        Volchok
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                        • #13
                          Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                          Just how do you define where the uncap ends and combat free area begins? Let's take this map, Tehran Highway US as an example.
                          I've got the users manual and it does not define it.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                            The uncap area is where you spawn at the start of the round. If anyone is so close to the enemy uncap that your wondering where the imaginary line is you're too close.

                            If, in the situation Gunney describes, you're pushed back to or stuck in your spawn location from the start of the round (the uncap) and leaving is causing insta-death due to the enemy being right at your doorstep then make a tactical decision. If you decide to use morters, do so, but be able to explain, justify, and defend you're decision to do so. Tehran is a bad map that causes the US to be locked in easily. There aren't many alternatives once locked in. If you do use morters expect morters back into the only spot on the map where you're not insta-dying, causing you to not only be locked in but to be unable to spawn at all. Also expect problems in chat, accusations, etc that you're firing from the uncap, even if you as a tagged TG member made the decision that it was ok due to circumstances.

                            I was also involved in the round in question and also asked our team, via chat, to back off. As has been said before, here and in other threads, Tehran is possibly the worst example of this situation, and as Buflak stated, something that will be patched at some point.

                            Under normal circumstances, on any map where you have an alternative, firing from the uncap is against server rules.

                            Originally posted by Iamthefallen View Post

                            Conquest Only: Players and resources must be established outside their main base by leaving it or firing from within it before being targeted.
                            This rule exists to promote game-play that's focused around capturing and defending flags and preserves both sides' ability to reinforce throughout the round. The Un-Capturable main Base (UCB) is intended to be the point of reinforcements for each team and is out of bounds (OOB) for the opposing team.

                            Clarifications and guidelines for UCB Rule
                            • Do not exploit the protection that the OOB zone in your UCB provides in order to engage opposition.
                            • Base protection assets such as stationary anti air and anti tank weapons within the UCB may be used to engage opposition.
                            • The UCB is not inteded to be a safe haven. Anyone firing out of the UCB, or withdrawing back into the UCB, is a valid target for the opposition.
                            • If you have a specific reason, you can engage a specific established enemy in the UCB. Then you must stop and withdraw. Attackers must avoid collateral damage.
                            • Do not look for an excuse to attack the enemy UCB.


                            There are no restrictions concerning main bases in Rush Mode.
                            This map is potentially the worst map in the game for this specific situation, and although it happens more than we'd like, getting pushed all of the way back into the US ucb is a specific situation as well. We're not going to change a long-standing rule, and one that the TG BF community knows and expects, due to one specific situation on a specific map.

                            Thanks
                            |TG-6th|FYAH29
                            "So Far, So Good................So What"

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                            • #15
                              Re: Rethinking the "No mortars from Uncap" rule

                              Originally posted by OldGunney View Post
                              Just how do you define where the uncap ends and combat free area begins?
                              We don't.

                              When it comes to shooting into the UCB, Fyah said it:
                              If anyone is so close to the enemy uncap that your wondering where the imaginary line is you're too close.
                              There's not much reason to be in that situation.

                              As far as shooting out, what does the rule actually say about it? Why do you think that is?

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