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Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

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  • #16
    Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

    In a game where there is a specific goal then achieving that goal determines who wins and who loses. In BF3 that goal, in Conquest mode, is to run the other team out of tickets. How you achieve that goal is different depending on person, squad, team and house rules. In this game, there is no greater result than to have won the round. What your PERSONAL goals are and what you yourself view victory is your PERSONAL view point and business. That personal viewpoint does not effect the fact that the goal of the game is to win.

    That being said. The winning team should receive, if I take into account the discussion at hand, a x2 bonus to their Points before the addition of Ribbons, Medals and Stars. If I were to take it even further I might suggest that only Team Work points are x2 bonus to the winning team. Team work points being Repair, Heal, Revive, Ammo, Avenger Bonus, Spot Bonus, Target Designation bonus, etc.

    The bottom line is the point of the game is to win. To win you must run the other team out of tickets first. Hence no matter how you play or why you play the goal of your play style should be to help your team win and not for simple personal gain without regard to your team. If that means you take point because you rule at twitch then do so. If that means you defend a hallway with an LMG then do so. If that means you go around repairing vehicles then do so. If that means you flank or go past the line of attack to take rear flags then do so. No matter what you do as long as it's in the best interest of the team then keep on doing it.

    However do it within the boundaries of the rules as set forward by the server you are playing on.
    .
    "Young gamers assault while Older gamers flank."
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    • #17
      Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

      Caution must be deployed first in this line of thought.

      Project Reality's games, from my perspective, have migrated into full blown, drag down knock out, blood sweat and tears contests of the willingness to do what it takes to win at the expense of all else, satisfaction must be derived from the sacrifices of your fellow gamers to put the team ahead of each other at all costs, including in many cases, fun. Overemphasizing the team will and has lead to behaviors that are not teamwork or fair play oriented, but allow winning. Locking the enemy into their spawn, booby trapping enemy assets, purposefully engaging in combat with equipment in ways that aren't illegal, but demonstrate poor sportsmanship and little respect, are all results of doubling down in the name of teamwork.

      In addition, in games where Teams must win or all the Players loose, tolerance of new or inexperienced players drops to a near zero value. Every single move must be unified and perfect, or else a system of cliques will develop between players who either feel they are, or genuinely are, better at the game. They will grow to resent new players, because those players bring risk of failure into the system. Dota/LoL/HoN is a prime example of games in which the requirement of teamplay to succeed has nearly depleted the available new stocks of players willing to suffer the abuse of veterans and move upwards in skill.

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      • #18
        Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

        Imagine the team stacking threads if only the winning team got points...

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        • #19
          Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

          Yeah I don't think thats a good way to look at it. Besides, in conquest a huge amount of ticket burn comes from actual kills so the guy with the highest k/d at the end of the round is actually the best team player in a way. Obviously if you are reviving fallen teammates you are also helping quite a bit. I don't think it would be fair for the losing team to not receive any points though.

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          • #20
            Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

            Im coming up on 1000 rounds, 459 of them I would have not gotten a single point, some of those games where very close 10/0 1/0, Some times we got best squad even though we lost.


            I think teamwork should get more points, but winning or loosing isn't all teamwork I've had games where one guy supporting the entire team, he dies/goes afk or disconnects and my team/ the enemy team get creamed.

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            • #21
              Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

              I say this idea is a no-go. The devil's in the details and I promise you there are always unintended consequences to everything you try to tweak.
              There is no solution, stop trying to fix the game. Play the game for what it is. The concept will be discouraging to some and alienate others.

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              • #22
                Re: Interesting post re. teamplay vs. self-gain

                You know my problem? I'm just way too ahead of my time.

                /douche mode

                Originally posted by SharinganTH1422 View Post
                Originally posted by BigGaayAl
                The proper way to promote teamwork, is that you have the win for your team as the only reward. Then you build the game such that not using proper teamwork makes you higly likely to lose. Then people will be motivated to use teamwork ...for the team Instead of teamwork for the grinding, for the points.
                This is actually a very interesting idea, and one that has actually already been implemented, but in a different type of game. Heroes of Newerth (I've heard that it's based off of/similar to Defence of the Ancients and League of Legends) is a game...that would probably take a while to explain, but it relies heavily on teamwork to win, and your overall score (or PSR) rises or falls depending on whether you win or lose your match. Usually the teams are quite small, with teams of 5v5, and interestingly enough, you almost always get people working together, choosing their roles depending on what their teammates have chosen, buying things, sacrificing themselves and even allowing others to take their kill, all for the good of the team, as opposed to themselves. Of course K/D is still recorded and many people take pride in theirs, but fairly often people will put their team and the victory, first.

                However, this results in 2 very big issues. The first is the complete non-noob friendliness. If you suck, it's virtually 4v5 and 20% of your team's strength taken away, and even worse you'll probably feed the other team with xp and gold if you're really bad. And not only only are you left with a "oh crap, that was completely my fault" kinda feeling, you have to be able to withstand a ton of flaming from your teammates. You can practice a bit in no stats (equivalent of unranked) games, but people are hardly playing their best here, they're more likely to leave if their round isn't going great, and they will often try stupid things. So you have to learn fast and have thick skin, because not being able to play well enough to at least hold your own is considered a crime.

                Secondly (and quite consequentially) I think this this makes the game incredibly niche and hardcore. While most will say that's a great thing, and I don't really disagree, we have to remember that DICE and EA are a business. These years of making and perfecting the engine and trying to create a great game cannot just be thrown into a niche market for a small (negative?) margin, it's just silly and if any of us were working for DICE, we'd feel the same....
                edit: pretty much the same as mat552

                P.S. If you think you've seen internet abuse, you should really go play a game of DoTA/HoN. One of my friends once described the learning curve as a cliff with no footholes with people at the top raining down insults about your mother, and once you get to the top, you're just not bad.

                It really wasn't much fun.
                Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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