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Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

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  • Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

    Hey guys, what if, guys!, what if we made a new thread about Tactics!



    Try to keep it neat and tidy and let people know what you are talking about and keep it on topic.

    Example.

    What your tactic is used for or aganist: "Infantry"

    The tactic: "Flanked in such and such a way as to get behind them"

    An example of when you did it: "On karkand flanked behind killed them won the game for my team"

    How successful is it overall: "Has a small/big chance of working every time"

    Maybe even a screenshot of when you did it: "Unrelated picture http://i.imgur.com/IcTjE.png Unrelated picture







    So have at it guys, I hope to hear your tactics.

  • #2
    Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

    The tactic: strategic squad spawning.

    A SL who lays low in a good spot makes it easy for his squad to continually spawn in a strategic location and apply contiinual pressure on the enemy. Examples being on the flank, or near a flag so your squad is actually spawning closer to the flag than a disorganized enemy. After playing hundreds of hours as SL in BF2 I try to be a similar squad leader in BF3. Even when not SL I find myself sitting back as strategic spawn, putting down covering suppression fire, and moving in strategically when it's safe, trying to stay alive. I believe this BF2 style of squad leading can be more effective than a SL who is in the midst of it all and constantly respawning on squad members under fire, in a known location, an area that's hot, etc.

    Of course being able to have SL spawn on members can be useful, I just think you need to be choosy as SL for when you act as spawn point or charge with the rest of your squad.

    Effectiveness? Very.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

      I agree cross... The gameplay of BF3 is such that even here at TG kills seem to rule the day. Im glad to see someone bring the idea of the SL actually put themselves in a place to spawn their squad and controll whats going on.
      |TG| CrazySob
      sigpic
      Wondering where I am? Look up and wait for the inevitable sound of 2000lbs of death and destruction that is about to ruin your day.

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      • #4
        Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

        On that note, we had a map specific spawn the other day that I was shocked more TG players don't use or know about.

        On Oman the farthest left back capture point (D on the small oman) has a very important building to hold. The bigged building there has a sheltered area up top. A good defending (russian squad) will start with a beacon behind the building almost by the fence. Remember that the direction you are facing when you set the beacon sets the direction parachuters will face while spawning in. This is important to get the proper landing.

        The recon then suicides and comes back with a parachute and goes for the top of the tallest builing (the one closest to the flag).

        After landing on this building, placing a spawn beacon inside the very core (elevator shaft) of the building will give your squadies a place to spawn up high without a parachute.

        At this point, it is very tempting to snipe, but the best use of this area in my opinion is for a soflam javelin team. Ideally you would like a squad of 1 sniper with soflam (bring a bolt action with 12x scope if you can for tough countersniper shots), 1 support for ammo, 2 engineers with javelin.

        A soflam placed on the rebar at the right front corner of the building at that level will be able to lock onto tanks at all the beach points as well as the city and hotel.

        The support should most likely have a bipoded LMG with single fire mode and a high magnification scope so they can protect the team from snipers (M60 is also a nice option if you can control your fire). The sniper won't likely do much counter sniping as target acquisition with his soflam will be the order of the day.


        Be warned, this is highly effective at making life miserable for tanks on the map and you will very soon have attack choppers, transport choppers, and possibly parachuting soldiers on you. Snipers on the rooftop of hotel will have a clear shot at you so the support needs to keep an eye towards that building (also the end of the bridge to the far right). Awareness of when to set a new beacon, when to drop down just a level and when to focus on air assets is important for survival. You will most likely have trouble controlling the flag immediately below you so laying mines while the recon is getting up top is recommended.
        Last edited by Misnomer; 07-27-2012, 12:53 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

          Controlling the tower does work well, and as Misnomer states will make life difficult for enemy armor. The problem is a large percentage of the squads that attain that location will do just as you said; snipe, snipe, snipe. TG tagged players won't be dropping the beacon and then suciding to respawn airborne. It may be a laugable distinction between hitting the suicide key, and running into the fray shouting "Leroy Jenkins", but suicide isn't something TG will support. Drop your beacon, defend the tower on the ground the best you can, and use your freshly placed beacon to then get a position up top. This goes for wasting any aircraft as well. Being dropped by your pilot/squad into position is great. Grabbing an aircraft solo and bailing to gain the high position is bad.

          Of course this is what I would do and I tend to be dead more than alive.
          |TG-6th|FYAH29
          "So Far, So Good................So What"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

            Originally posted by FYAH29 View Post
            It may be a laugable distinction between hitting the suicide key, and running into the fray shouting "Leroy Jenkins", but suicide isn't something TG will support. Drop your beacon, defend the tower on the ground the best you can, and use your freshly placed beacon to then get a position up top. This goes for wasting any aircraft as well. Being dropped by your pilot/squad into position is great. Grabbing an aircraft solo and bailing to gain the high position is bad.
            Yeah I tend to only suicide for the sake of the speed of getting up there in the first place. I actually asked permission from the TG'rs in my squad the last time I did the suicide thing. They were okay with it, but I suppose I can Leroy Jenkins. Sometimes taking a DPV out to a beach point can be a great risk reward early game Oman.

            I am not sure if this is an alternative, but if the squad lead puts beacon down first and everyone holds spawn until it is down then the first in is also a recon that sets up top. The SL then just needs to Leroy and come back as a different class since the other recon is already doing that job. Not sure it gains you much except possibly some speed in getting the soflam up.


            Furthering the conversation, what is your opinion on squad leads going recon? I tend to think it is a good thing so the squad lead can stay in combat (using, mav, tugs, or soflam info to direct the squad) while making sure the squad has a forward spawn (thinking PR and 2142 style). I have also heard that it is not valuable because the game is too fast paced and beacons get left behind if you are not defending (In HC you can actually destroy that as a teammate if ordered though). Opinions?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

              I personally dont like SL going recon for one reason... You waste your ability to spawn you squad. Its more usefull to have someone else come in with a "Backup" spawn. But there aren't many players that can keep pace with a sniper rifle and be half the force you need them to be. As a sl I think having 2 medics an engi and support ends up being the best combo. But if you have a good sniper in your squad its never a bad idea to use them as a secondary spawn point.
              |TG| CrazySob
              sigpic
              Wondering where I am? Look up and wait for the inevitable sound of 2000lbs of death and destruction that is about to ruin your day.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                Originally posted by CrazySob View Post
                I personally dont like SL going recon for one reason... You waste your ability to spawn you squad. Its more usefull to have someone else come in with a "Backup" spawn. But there aren't many players that can keep pace with a sniper rifle and be half the force you need them to be.
                Waste is an interesting word. If you don't have a beacon, your SL must stay safe...otherwise you often end up spawning in with a death sentence. You spend a lot of time telling the SL to get safe and the SL telling squad members to get safe. In many ways it is more efficient to have the SL able to play still since this is not BF2 or BF2142 with 6 players in the squad able to take up the slack.

                On the point of a playing squad lead who is also recon, I am fond of that SL running a 4x or 3.4x scope on a semi auto like the svd, mk11 mod 0, m39 EBR, sks, or m417. If it's is a small map, any number of PDW's are effective or... if you happen to be very skilled at such a thing.... slug 870 or SPAS can actually function well at nearly any range. You can have options that make you more useful than a 12x M98b player as SL recon.

                Originally posted by CrazySob View Post
                As a sl I think having 2 medics an engi and support ends up being the best combo.
                I think this is a carry over from competition style play. There it probably makes more sense since defib is king. In pubs, the second medic seems to be there so you can have one med pack and one 320.

                I like the smoke from the 320, but there is nothing else that launcher does that a good RPG or regular nade can't do (maybe it has a place in anti-Hummvee or Vodnik warfare).

                I would rather have my recon as a DMR to take out those ranged threats including soflams and placed machine gunners. That leaves the assault to run a reflex sight and focus on midrange combat. Now a support gunner can also run the dmr type role, but not as well on the move as that class usually requires a bipod to be steady enough to counter snipe. The other benefit of a recon is either TUGS, MAV, or SOFLAM. Each is an incredibly useful tool in many ways.

                For example (and one that happened): SL goes recon while other three set up to use a three seat tank. The SL can provided MAV support and have a beacon in place as a fall back.

                TUGs is pretty self explanatory and useful for defending any point. The spotting lets the SL know where the enemy coming from and issue orders as necessary to adjust.

                SOFLAM. Allows the SL to hang back and spot for Javeliners while acting as a spawn. Since he is likely to be hiding, this gives more spawn options (to beacon or not) and prevents one squad member from being effectively useless to everyone not using a javelin when he is a remote operator.



                I see the benefits of other choices, I just think that recon running certain weapons is a very effective class choice for SLs.
                Last edited by Misnomer; 07-30-2012, 03:12 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                  I usually prefer a squad without a recon person, with small four man squads it does not seem useful enough to pull its weight. Still in some situations one MAV can help the whole team and not just one squad.
                  If you are planning on defending any position it might be possible to pick up kit from a dead recon to place the beacon before going back to something else.
                  I dont think people scavenge as much in BF3, as they did previous games.


                  |TG| Buletproof_Bob

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                  • #10
                    Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                    Originally posted by mamahmed View Post
                    I dont think people scavenge as much in BF3, as they did previous games.
                    That's a function of the kits themselves being so much harder to find now that they are just guns. BC2 started the trend. I have a feeling the people at DICE are very proud at having more droppable items on the map, what they really accomplished was massively reducing the kit swapping mechanic in the game ... for better or worse.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                      Fighting a tank?


                      Keep mobile, that is how you win against a tank as infantry, you are much more mobile then a tank, don't stand around like a moron, some people do, and its just free kills for the tank driver/gunner.

                      You don't even have to throw all 6 chunks of c4, 1 or 2 will be enough for your squad mates to do the rest with smaws/rpgs,

                      Hide your mines behind small objects or enemy mines even an ammo box or health kit will work, they enemy can't spot it.

                      Lure the tank and get around it on all sides, keep moving as you do so.

                      You don't have to always destroy the tank to make it ineffective, Disable it or keep it pinned down can be more effective then blowing it up, sooner or later someone will jump out and try to fix it, have a recon ready to shoot the engineer, you can shoot them in the feet looking under the tank, Even if your javlin is deflected by the smoke it can still hurt and kill the engineers outside of the tank.

                      Never give the tank a second of breathing room, follow it as far and as fast as you can, and keep some pressure on it, even if its one or two rockets, its still annoying to the tank.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                        You knew I would reply to this.... so let's get on in a civilized manner.


                        Originally posted by Brainhurts View Post
                        Fighting a tank?Keep mobile, that is how you win against a tank as infantry, you are much more mobile then a tank, don't stand around like a moron, some people do, and its just free kills for the tank driver/gunner. .
                        This is a nice thought, but basically it comes down to " shoot RPG, then pray as you run". That can work. You fire from cover that gives you a back exit... but that usually means you have to have a back alley to run to. This is because as soon as you fire that RPG there is a hit indicator on the tank and it will turn, see your smoke trail, and fire a shot. That means you have to get out of the one hit kill splash range from the tank.

                        Of course the idea that you are more mobile is a bit overrated since the tank is way faster than you, can use proximity scans to see where you are headed and get there before you, and only has to shoot in your vicinity once to kill you.

                        Moving is generally good idea, but you have to be in a good place on the map for it to work. So either set up an ambush at that spot... or hope a tank is in a nice place where you can run right or left behind hard cover with the tank requiring a long drive to get behind you (think the archway area at A on Karkand versus an place you could fire an RPG at G, or the Alleyways on Seine versus combatting a tank on the Bridge).


                        Originally posted by Brainhurts View Post
                        You don't even have to throw all 6 chunks of c4, 1 or 2 will be enough for your squad mates to do the rest with smaws/rpgs,
                        I believe the standard proceedure now is 3 C4 or 4 if reactive for an explosion. If you don't kill it, kiss your butt goodbye. They can exit the tank with a carbine up and spraying before you can switch weapons back from the detonator. In which case it is better not to detonate until you are safe... and the tank with proximity will get you before you are safe.

                        Thus, the only real C4 strat is... get as much on as you can before the tank moves and then book it as far as you can before exploding. Only experience will teach you the signs of a tank realizing you are planting C4. Remember there is no blind spot and the top gunner may be looking in another direction. So as Brain says... err on the side of getting any explosion.

                        The tip for teammates is to try to rpg that C4 quickly if your teammate dies so you have a chance at a double explosion killing the tank.

                        Originally posted by Brainhurts View Post
                        Hide your mines behind small objects or enemy mines even an ammo box or health kit will work, they enemy can't spot it.
                        If you can convince a teammate to stand in the middle of the street with you, good idea with the boxes. Otherwise small objects don't stop spam spotting or thermal spotting of mines. Trees felled on mines work, but there are rare places to do that (a side street near B on Seine is the one where I see people do it most offten).[/quote]


                        Originally posted by Brainhurts View Post
                        Lure the tank and get around it on all sides, keep moving as you do so.
                        Good idea. Rarely feasible on a map because tanks are very mobile and very fast. If you can manage it with your squad you may get the tank especially if you shoot the engineers on sight with an RPG if you have it out (gotta keep the wrenchers cleaned off the outside). This is a great tactic on Oman where most points are open from 4 sides and surrounding is possible. Works decently on Caspian too.

                        Originally posted by Brainhurts View Post
                        You don't have to always destroy the tank to make it ineffective, Disable it or keep it pinned down can be more effective then blowing it up, sooner or later someone will jump out and try to fix it, have a recon ready to shoot the engineer, you can shoot them in the feet looking under the tank, Even if your javlin is deflected by the smoke it can still hurt and kill the engineers outside of the tank.

                        Never give the tank a second of breathing room, follow it as far and as fast as you can, and keep some pressure on it, even if its one or two rockets, its still annoying to the tank.
                        The trick there is not dying. Being annoying is fine, but you do cost your team tickets if you die too much (as I demonstrated in my other thread). Disabling tanks is worth while, but it is mostly effective for teams with 2 javelins at some distance. 2 Engies behind a tank will beat an RPG barrage, you cannot damage enough to keep up with the repair as far as I know. Plus... you will likely get shot by an engie while you are reloading your rpg or the tank in the manner described above in this post if you are close.



                        Other tips:

                        1. Shoot the back of the tank at a 90 degree angle if possible. If not aim for side armor or treads at the highest angle possible with RPG.

                        2. Tanks get a beeping warning for a Javelin locking on, try starting your lock then sprinting away and starting it again somewhere else. The tank will almost always see you before you get a lock.

                        3. Let your entire team (not just squad) know if you are running Jav in chat, sometimes snipers will only use soflam if they know someone has jav. The ability to fire out of line of sight and the damage bonus for soflam jav is crucial.

                        4. Groups of 2 land mines were a kill in BC2, it is 3 minimum in BF3 for a full health tank to actually destroy. Think about your pattern. Sometimes you can use three to lead the tank forward and then a grouping of three to kill it around a corner. Tanks stay in the middle of roads usually because they can't see mines or C4 as well on the side of the road...so don't bother wasting it there. Corners are the only places mines can be on the curb and useful.

                        5. Throw grenades at mines/c4 to detonate it under a tank. This can be very useful for an Engie doing a C4 type run at a tank with mines. Sort of a timed detonator if you will. Rockets, frag shotgun rounds, and some large caliber weapons can also do the detonation. If you are not the engie, look out for ANY... friendly or enemy...mines near a tank that you might nade and make explode.

                        6. If you are playing assault in a squad taking on a tank, equip smoke launcher 320. The tank will ohk your squad anyway so that med pack is not worth much (revives are also a bit of a waste since the tank can keep spaming that spot, better to have the squad lead or a beacon further back so you can keep bringing new angles to the tank). You are much better off blinding him with smoke so you can fire and reposition as Brainhurts points out. Support running mortar can do the same thing and do damage to the tank with the smoke shell oddly enough. Don't underestimate smoke...it can piss off a tank driver enough to make him forget proximity scan.
                        Last edited by Misnomer; 07-31-2012, 03:45 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                          Some interesting information from these two threads on Symthic.com that help in planning attacks on tanks.

                          M1A2 Abrams / T90 Health Info (http://symthic.com/forum/index.php?p...&threadID=1447)

                          Tanks are still disabled at 50%.
                          Proximity Sensor (perk) - 20 meter radius, detects players moving or stationary
                          Proximity Sensor (from CITV seat) - 20 meter radius, detects players moving or stationary
                          T-UGS - 30 meters, and does not detect motionless players, nor players moving while crouched


                          Maxhealth: 1000.0
                          Disabled: 500.0

                          Front:
                          Min Damage Angle 0.0 -> 81.0
                          Damage multiplier: 1.0
                          Reactive armor: None

                          Rear:
                          Min Damage Angle 36.0
                          Damage multiplier: 2.75
                          Reactive armor: 175

                          Side:
                          Min Damage Angle 45.0
                          Damage multiplier: 1.8
                          Reactive armor: 175


                          Explosives damage info ( http://symthic.com/forum/index.php?p...&threadID=1023 )

                          (I believe these are precentages so and not pure damage out of 1000. Add a 0 to the end of each if you want these numbers to work with the above numbers... and remember that reactive negates 1 shot or explosive on each panel)


                          SMAW/RPG perpendicular to the front: 22 - (22)
                          SMAW/RPG perpendicular to the side: 45 - (41)
                          SMAW/RPG perpendicular to the rear: 55 - (71)
                          With Reactive Armor: Zero (up to one hit per side)

                          Javelin perpendicular to the front: 48 - (50)
                          Javelin perpendicular to the side: 52 - (58 )
                          Javelin perpendicular to the rear: 65 - (67)
                          Javelin with SOFLAM: 71 - (71) (movement appears to result in a few slightly lower numbers)
                          With Reactive Armor: (Both with SOFLAM designation and without): usually zero, but sometimes 8-20 for the first shot, BUT sometimes a javelin removes multiple side's reactive armor.


                          C4 anywhere on the tank - 61 damage
                          C4 anywhere on the tank with reactive armor - 2 packs - far less than 99 damage
                          C4 on IFVs and MAA to the front - 55
                          C4 on IFVs and MAA to the side - 55
                          C4 on IFVs and MAA to the rear - 58

                          (Mines also do 61 damages, but I couldn't find info on the multiplier...)

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                          • #14
                            Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                            Mis I do agree with you pointing out smoke... I never see it and its really funny... It really can make it impossible for a tank to opporate in any way shape or form. You can fire one infront and one behind and make it so he crashes into a wall and is an easy kill. Or make it easy for a support to c4. But in all honesty brain is right about being more mobile on foot. I usually just try to chase a tank off a flag rather than actually try and kill it. But you both make good points.
                            |TG| CrazySob
                            sigpic
                            Wondering where I am? Look up and wait for the inevitable sound of 2000lbs of death and destruction that is about to ruin your day.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Back to the Tactics part III : Return of the discussion of tactics

                              Smoke against a tank can really kill it quickly, or atleast move it off the point.

                              Like I said, keep mobile, never ever fire from the same spot twice, thats probably 60% of my kills in a tank, is people firing from the same location over and over.

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