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Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

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  • Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

    Can we make a addition to the rules of no spawncamping during Rush especially if we're going to keep Strike at Karkand [Rush] in the rotation? One side clearly has the superior advantage with 2 pieces of armor while the other side only has a tank.

    Tonight (and quite a few months), I have gotten real fed up with armor rolling into the Defenders side's spawn and just sitting there spawn camping the hell out of our team. For example, tonight: two players sat in a tank and LAV respectively and kept firing into our main. It basically left me a very sour and totally un-TG taste in my mouth to the point where I just left the server in frustration as I just spawn and died 6 times in a row in our main spawn.
    Last edited by Wicks; 06-24-2013, 01:42 PM. Reason: Redacted out of courtesy
    |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
    TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
    Former 9th & 13th

    Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
    Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





    SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

    TG Primer and Rules

  • #2
    Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

    Sadly, that is the point of Rush.

    The problem is that damn map. There is absolutely nothing defenders can do to prevent that on the first spawn. Without a ready up period to move and set mines or get in positions, attackers can use the lightning fast vehicles, run to the back and rape. Then they can rely on the OP prox scan or reactive, thermals, and repair tool combo that DICE put in as a crutch for the poor helpless armor punks.

    It is just incredibly poor design. Karkand should be out of the rotation unless it is run infantry only (much like Grand Bazaar rush, which is nice and fun until the OP armor shows up.)
    Last edited by Misnomer; 06-24-2013, 09:27 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

      Unless there has a been a change ,spawn killing is already not allowed.
      |TG-12th| Namebot

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      • #4
        Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

        Originally posted by Namebot View Post
        Unless there has a been a change ,spawn killing is already not allowed.
        Name you know as well as anyone who has played Rush in BF3 that there is no defined defender spawn zone. There is a general area early game where you know people may spawn. They may also shoot you from that area as it looks at the objective. Rush is about getting enough presence into the area to provide cover for the MCOM plant. If you can't kill anyone that you see as you are going for the objective then the mode becomes impossible.

        This is a case of a couple skilled vehicle drivers abusing the poor design of this map to get into the back of the objective area early and deny almost all spawns to the defenders. It is entirely about that bad section of the map and not really "spawnkilling" per se as there is no such thing as a defender's uncap and no guaranteed spawning in that area.

        It is simply a bad map when played with vehicles.

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        • #5
          Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

          Most every map can have a situation like this. When this is happening it needs to be reported to an Admin. Report it in chat so there is a record of it. Look in TS and see if you can find one of us even if we aren't currently in the BF channel. As Namebot has said, spawn killing is already against our rules.
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          • #6
            Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

            I feel it should be removed from the rotation if we can't prevent the spawn rape in the general spawn area. I've played it enough on other servers as a infantry only map and the exact same spawn raping happens (you don't need vehicles to spawn camp the hell out of a enemy team).

            Generally I avoid shooting into that area to play fair and be sportsman about it, but not everyone else does the same (usually they don't).

            Originally posted by hil3illy
            Report it in chat so there is a record of it. Look in TS and see if you can find one of us even if we aren't currently in the BF channel.
            Unfortunately there were no BF admins anywhere on TS and hadn't been most of the day from what I gathered from others on TS. Not to blame E_Leader about this since he has a life too, but he is really the only BF admin we ever see lately. If he's not on, likely we can't find another BF admin to help usually.

            Originally posted by hil3illy
            As Namebot has said, spawn killing is already against our rules.
            Hmm, this seems to be a reversal from what E_Leader explained to me and my general understanding from the old BF2142/BF2 days. It was explained that since Rush provides no UCB, then if spawn camping/killing occurred, there was nothing in the rules against it and thus admins could not prevent it from happening.
            |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
            TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
            Former 9th & 13th

            Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
            Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





            SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

            TG Primer and Rules

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            • #7
              Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

              Originally posted by Acreo Aeneas View Post
              Tonight (and quite a few months), I have gotten real fed up with armor rolling into the Defenders side's spawn and just sitting there spawn camping the hell out of our team. For example, tonight: AlmightyDirtboy and BubblyDorky sat in a tank and LAV respectively and kept firing into our main. It basically left me a very sour and totally un-TG taste in my mouth to the point where I just left the server in frustration as I just spawn and died 6 times in a row in our main spawn.
              Surely this specific action needs to be addressed. It doesn't engender the sense of fair play I've come to expect out of TG for sure but yet technically it isn't against the rules for the Rush game mode.

              With Rush the attackers spawn is not an uncap and isn't given the uncap protection status here at TG but here's that leniency clearly being abused to prevent the attackers gaining any footing in the map at all.

              Clearly we need a rule to prevent this because unscrupulous players can and will abuse lenient rules.

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              • #8
                Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

                I'm lovin' the fact that this is a public post with names being named and not in the 'Contact an Admin' forum (where it belongs).

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                • #9
                  Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

                  Producing a rule for this sort of thing is harder than it sounds. Everytime one draws a line in the sand and states "You cannot shoot anyone here/from here" you end up inviting the 'Rule's lawyers' to the table. You also find that a minority of players will sit on that line, waiting, in a way that isn't dissimilar to the 2 kids in the back of the car. "Stop touching me, mom he keeps touching me", "I'm not touching you" (hand waving two inches from the protesting child's face.

                  Instead let's look at the Primer

                  1) Create an environment conducive for mature gamers to enjoy the games they play without the everyday interference from the less-than-mature gamers.
                  2) Create an environment where there was mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.
                  3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.
                  At the start of a round of BF3 between members of mature community, does it sound like racing to get into position to spam rounds into the initial spawn of your opponent checks any of the above boxes, at all, on any level? No it doesn't. So here's an idea. Don't do it. Nevermind the fact that we have a rule about spawn killing, nevermind DICE's fail map design, nevermind irrelevant excuses. Do mind a mature environment, one that considers fair play a virtue not a tactical handicap and an expected level of play that transcends the cheap and nasty, which can be had on any number of other servers.

                  Rules help keep our servers free of the 'worst' players. Expectations and personal standards are what should keep our servers full of the 'best' players.

                  Let's clean up the standard a bit shall we and focus on quality games.:row__577:
                  Last edited by Wicks; 06-24-2013, 02:00 PM.


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                  • #10
                    Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

                    Originally posted by Acreo Aeneas View Post
                    Unfortunately there were no BF admins anywhere on TS and hadn't been most of the day from what I gathered from others on TS.
                    Wasn't Cappuccino Bob there last night?

                    He's an admin and I thought he was on at the time this occurred. He was on the attacking team though and I don't remember anyone complaining about the spawn killing in the chat. Undead and I whined about the vehicles a bit, but I don't think anyone specifically said "spawnkilling."

                    (Honestly I don't remember being spawnkilled on that and I was in your squad).


                    The map is downright horrible though. I am starting to think that the best strategy is letting the attacking team have the first set to avoid the frustration and have everyone on the defenders set up anti-vehicle mines, C4, RPGs, and a soflam on the hotel roof in hopes of dropping at least one vehicle while defending the second point.

                    Undead and I planned on setting mines on the first stage and we both sprinted immediately to do it. I saw Undead get even with Alpha (the point on the main road) and put down 2 mines before he was blasted to smithereens by the tank. Even if the tank had not blown up those mines, the 2 set wouldn't have even killed it.

                    Those tanks and apcs will just charge to the end of the street and start blasting everyone they see and that courtyard is the spawn area. Without an admin who is basically ready to kick the drivers a minute into the round, it is really hopeless.

                    Is there an admin willing to kick those TG players who go for spawns frequently on maps? (Grand Bazaar Large Conquest being another likely problem)
                    Last edited by Misnomer; 06-24-2013, 02:10 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Rule Addition of No Main Spawn Killing/Camping for Rush?

                      Originally posted by wicks View Post
                      producing a rule for this sort of thing is harder than it sounds. Everytime one draws a line in the sand and states "you cannot shoot anyone here/from here" you end up inviting the 'rule's lawyers' to the table. You also find that a minority of players will sit on that line, waiting, in a way that isn't dissimilar to the 2 kids in the back of the car. "stop touching me, mom he keeps touching me", "i'm not touching you" (hand waving two inches from the protesting child's face.
                      lol!!!!
                      Last edited by Wicks; 06-24-2013, 01:59 PM. Reason: My typo lol, sorry

                      I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                      Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                      J.F.C. Fuller

                      Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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