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  • [Alpha] Map Notes

    Let's talk about the map a little. If you've got any insight, experience, tips, tricks, etc. let's hear it. Every little bit helps.

    How about the basics. This is the map:



    US team starts with two spawns essentially.
    Carrier:
    x2 F35
    x1 UH-1Y Venom
    x1 AH-1Z Viper
    x1 Centurion (The AA gun on the carrier)
    RHIBs
    Island:
    X1 AMTRAC
    RHIBs
    Also worth noting is that there are two DPVs at each tip of the main island between the US beachhead and alpha and echo respectively.

    RU starts with all sorts of toys.
    Alpha:
    x1 T-90
    x1 DPV
    Bravo:
    x1 DPV
    Charlie:
    x2 SU-35BM Flanker
    x1 MI-26 Havoc
    x1 Tunguska
    x1 T-90
    DPVs
    Delta:
    x1 DPV
    Echo:
    x1 T-90
    x1 DPV


    I could be wrong on the numbers for the DPVs and RHIBs but I'm pretty close.

    Also worth noting:
    • When the US captures alpha and echo they get an M1 Abrams spawn.
    • When the US captures charlie all enemy air assets catch fire and explode and the US subsequently gets an M1 spawn and a LAV-AD spawn and no additional air assets.

  • #2
    Re: Map Notes

    Now for some personal notes.

    As US:
    • SOFLAM!!!! For the love of all things good and holy we need SOFLAM coverage. Our jet (the F35) is inferior to the Flanker. We have to help them out as much as possible with SOFLAM + Javelin and/or guided shell (once we get tanks). Not to mention that there is a lot of terrain elevation changes to use as cover. One well, placed SOFLAM and 2-3 engineers hiding by the shoreline can just devastate enemy armor since they will no longer need line of sight to target. 3 javelins hitting simultaneously is enough to pretty much ruin any armor's day.
    • We have to get either alpha or echo quickly to get some friendly armor and then protect the M1 strongly. If all goes well it will be that on little tank vs. 2 T-90s and a Tunguska. So multiple wrench monkeys and supporting infantry until we can establish a good foothold on the main island.



    As RU:
    • <see above> Our jet may still be better this time around but they have two choppers to harass us with. SOFLAM coverage + javelin/guided shell can still be devastating. Especially since we start with 3 T-90s and the guided shell is a 1-hit kill against aircraft that they can't shake with flares.
    • Keep alpha, charlie, and echo at all costs. The US team gain nothing but a spawn point by taking bravo or delta. However, they gain armor and deny us valuable assets if they take the other three.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Map Notes

      In my experience, the fight very quickly tends to bog down on the actual island- the land routes are narrow and form natural choke points that quickly bog down pushes. An attack either needs to be made with a lot of people very quickly or you get very quickly halted in chokepoints.

      On the attack, I would recommend sending everyone on the team to take A and B, then split 2-3 squads to travel with the Amtrac+Heli to take E and D, and then just hold positions and wait for bleed to choke them out. I think a direct attack on C at any point will devolve into a stalemate unless it is very well coordinated and is coming in from multiple directions, since it's very defensible and has a lot of armour.

      On the defense, I'd advise putting a squad each on A and E to take the tanks, and have the rest of the team to spawn on C to act as jeep and armour-borne mobile reserves to respond as needed. I think the absolute best defensive positions for a land-borne assault are at the bridge between A and B and the land between D and E. The initial squads that spawn in should take the armour that spawn at their respective flags and then take up defensive positions at those spots. If we can keep the initial tanks from A and E alive the entire round, we could limit the attackers' armour to only the AAV.
      He was told that he should not kill, and he did not kill, until he got into the Army. Then he was told to kill, and he killed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Map Notes

        Is there anyway to stop the SOFLAM? I'm expecting the worst with the other team setting up several of these and killing everything as it comes into land on the island.

        Semi related to this, is the server going to be running unranked with all the weapons unlocked?
        Reapator, overlord of ponies

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Map Notes

          Originally posted by Reaperassault View Post
          Is there anyway to stop the SOFLAM?
          There is; see this thread.
          <insert signature spam here>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Map Notes

            Looks like it's time for the armour crews to pack IR smoke.
            He was told that he should not kill, and he did not kill, until he got into the Army. Then he was told to kill, and he killed.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Map Notes

              The MAV is the weapon against SOFLAM. Just have to get close enough with the MAV which will be the big problem. Will mortars be helpful and if so, where would be best to utilize? As US would it be better to take two flags on one arm of Wake and then take a third point at the tip of the second arm and just let bleed work or would a stealth chopper flight with three squad leads droppin on Charlie really screw with the defender's day?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Map Notes

                Smoke will also break the lock on the Javelin. Even stranger, the smoke appears to make the Javelin veer off to the side/away from the target instead of turning it into a dumbfire rocket. For aircraft, the ECM Jammer will prevent a lock from being acquired until it expires, but this makes you more vulnerable in air-to-air combat. The Flanker does much better in air-to-air combat than the F-35, but I haven't looked at the pilots yet. As RU, it might be worthwhile to have the Flankers run ECM just to protect from the inevitable SOFLAMing. As the US, I think it will be almost futile to get aircraft off in the first wave. Not only are there the SOFLAMs, but the Tunguska will be inbound too.

                Are there enough RHIBs and smoke-capable craft to let us hit one point simultaneously? Everyone pile into APCs, the AMTRAC, and Rhibs and just rush alpha as hard as possible? Have the pilots spawn with the recon kit and MAVs if they've got them, use the MAVs to take out the SOFLAMs, then get airborne while the rest of the team hits alpha. The Venom, I think, should be used as a gunship in this opening phase, rather than a transport. Once that initial "soflams and javelins everwhere, since they don't have to care about bullets" period ends and we get on the island, the Venom and other transports can head wherever necessary.

                Last idea, and something that should be tested: What are the effects of mortars on a SOFLAM? Either smoke rounds or HE? If mortars can take them out and can fire from somewhere relatively safe, then that gives options. Likewise, if smoke breaks the SOFLAM's ability to lock, then either assault smoke grenades or the mortar rounds (again, range dependent) on the SOFLAM itself can give more windows.

                More thoughts on attacking: Charlie is obviously the key point. If it is taken, the US completely dominates the air AND removes the Tunguska from play. We're attacking TG, and they know this. In pubs, or even on the TG server, you can backcap C. That won't happen here. Not only can engineers effectively support the fight from anywhere (if SOFLAMs are up) but the approach is so long and everyone is on coms that I don't see it happening. I'd focus instead on getting bleed and trying to keep their AA dead, since in the long, narrow corridor that is Wake, its gun can kill...quite a bit.

                edit: If RHIBs really are not targetable by SOFLAMs, I think that most of our team should use those to try to get a foothold on the island. They might die easily, but if a squad gets ON there, its a lot easier to do.
                I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Map Notes

                  Charlie is the key to this map. If the defenders lose it, it is over for them.
                  As defense, let's hold C at all costs.
                  As attack, we may want to do the unexpected and ignore C, going for a 4 flag bleed instead.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Map Notes

                    Here are my thoughts, if anything is unclear or needs further explanation I will gladly elaborate.

                    As the US our goal should be to hold half of the island and no more. The D and E finger of the island is extremely exposed offering little cover to those trying to attack towards C. The A/B finger of the island offers very defined choke points for both land vehicles and infantry. It also offers some fairly good defensive positions between each flag. Another key advantage to the A/B flags are they're proximity to the uncap points and aircraft staging areas. As most will agree C stands for crucial in this instance. Holding this point ensures air superiority and provides an invaluable staging point for operations on either side of the island.

                    As the RU our goal should be to hold four flags including B, C, D, and E. The first five minutes of the round are the most crucial allowing our team to secure a firm lead. Our initial actions should include securing all armored vehicles on the island, denying enemy transports access to the island, and grounding all enemy aircraft. This is a tall order but is only meant as an opening move. Once this is complete we should strategically withdraw from A and force all enemy combatants to that landing zone. It is important that we only allow the enemy to hold flags on one finger of the island.

                    On the subject of anti-armor/aircraft support, at most our team should be operating two SOFLAMs and four Javelins. During the initial rounds as the RU this may need to be altered.

                    The MAV is a valuable asset and we should have at least one on duty or available. However traditional spotting by each teammate should be the SOP for identifying troop movements.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Map Notes

                      DeF, I agree with everything you said. Going for A-B-C on offence and keeping B-C-D-E on defence seem like sensible strategies to me (including the voluntary yielding of A when appropriate). However, I do think we need to augment these primary goals with a couple of fall-back plans. As an example, the enemy might have deployed all its forces at C and we keep running into a brick wall trying to cap it. At some point, it might be prudent to settle for a slightly-less-than-ideal, but still acceptable alternative.

                      Viable candidates could be (everything open for discussion, of course):

                      On offence:
                      • A-B-E (gives us armour but no air superiority)
                      • A-D-E (same, but more difficult to retain)
                      • A-B-D-E (highest ticket bleed, best to keep up the pressure on C)


                      On defence:
                      • A-B-C-D (yielding E, although this will leave D extremely vulnerable if pressure is not kept up on E)
                      • A-B-C ("trading space for time," trying to exact a high ticket cost by hammering the enemy advance from E to C)


                      Etcetera. I guess what I'm saying is that we should keep things fluent and adapt to the situation at hand, and not keep grinding to attain a pre-set goal that turns out to be folly.

                      Oh, and to further expand on the flag alphabet: D stands for "death trap." Trying to cap that when C and E are in enemy hands would be... unwise. Just saying.

                      Finally, could anyone please explain why the North Village and Base are in the South, and the South Base is in the North? Call me pedantic, but this drives me to distraction. :)
                      Last edited by Lekdevil.NL; 01-03-2012, 06:31 AM.
                      <insert signature spam here>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Map Notes

                        [QUOTE=Lekdevil.NL;1685240
                        Finally, could anyone please explain why the North Village and Base are in the South, and the South Base is in the North? Call me pedantic, but this drives me to distraction. :)[/QUOTE]Because, for some reason, DICE mapped Wake Island flipped on its axis. The real Wake's lagoon opens to the northwest, not what appears to be the southeast. Why? Don't ask me. All they'd have to do is turn the map over and everything would be okay. But they put the map in the wrong way, so we're stuck with a giant "wtf".

                        I really think we should give up on taking C as a plan. If it opens up for the taking, or we just find ourselves massively outshooting the opponent, great. If not, Alpha -> Beta/Echo or both, then go from there. DeF, no offense, but your strategy appears to be "take everything in the opening assault". Granted, that's...actually a good plan if it works, but its a bit unrealistic. Any planning, in my opinion, should focus on simply getting on the island alive and with our ticket-count not horribly drained. After that, with little to no CO involvement and small, reactive squads, I think its kind of silly to plan anything more beyond "it'd be nice to push for B while the Venom + 2 SLs that may or may not be predetermined go hit Echo. I'd expect everything to get thrown out the window after that.

                        Arun, what are the server settings? The higher the ticket count number, the more the game swings in favor of the US.
                        I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Map Notes

                          Remember that there is the possibility of CO involvement, depending on how the discussion thread goes. Really, any highly-detailed strategic discussion should probably be better left until we have squads assigned and the CO position's existence determined; we'll throw up a thread for that in a few days.

                          That having been said, I think if you're going to prioritize flags, C would be the way to go. We'll have to assume that we'll be up against a team that can and will utilize the armor and air assets at C to great effect, and that rolling AA tank is ridiculously useful. That having been said, I think Bleeding is right; we could hold all four other flags and bleed them out, but we'd have to hold at least three flags just to split up the assets Charlie gives the opposing team.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Map Notes

                            I think going at C right out of the gate is very, very risky. Now granted it sometimes takes risk to win these internal scrims but im not sure if that is the way to go. My assumptions is they are going to be HEAVILLY defended on that flag and that could cost us a ton of tickets.

                            All out blitz on A, secure tank, All out blitz on B, regroup, set up defense, send two squads of our best shooters to E.

                            I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                            Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                            J.F.C. Fuller

                            Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Map Notes

                              Originally posted by Razcsak View Post
                              DeF, no offense, but your strategy appears to be "take everything in the opening assault".
                              Sorry I never did actually say in what order to attack the points on the US side. A is a less than ideal staging point however it allows us to take a quick foothold and provides us with a much needed tank. I think a bilateral assault on A would be best sending our RHIBs near the tip to ensure survivability and dropping one or two squads near the bridge via our transport chopper. No matter what flag we take first we should try to isolate it and entrap any enemy units deploying from that point.

                              Also as a note I feel splitting our forces up between the two island fingers is extremely risky without holding C.
                              sigpic

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