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  • If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

    ... What would you do as CO? :)

    edit : The obvious start is to 'keep your 2', the question is which of the other flags would you go for?

  • #2
    Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

    For me it would be: Knock down C first, so you wil have no enemy snipers on that building and then defend it from your side. Also let a squad capture the point nearest to the enemy UCB, just to keep 1 or 2 enemy squads of your side.
    Proud to have been an Irregular!

    2142: Medic4Hire - BF4/Origin: MedicNL

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    • #3
      Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

      C is the obvious choice, but they will be doing the same. So, maybe an attempt on A/E and then you can encircle them.

      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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      • #4
        Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

        Bert hit it right. Take C down, hold your own and have two squads working together pushing the opposing enemy points. Use them as a combined larger squad split into fire teams so if one fire team gets wiped both squads can still spawn back in. This allows them to push between A/B or D/E, keeping one point but hopefully constantly harrasing both points so if one goes down they can respond quickly while pulling enemy away to other point again.

        The use of air and armour is pretty key as well, the attack heli in proper hands can change the tide rather quickly.

        Crap....thought I could give a quick thought but there is always a counter to each idea! I guess it really comes down to how the enemy responds to your opening moves. You will have to respond accordingly.

        It will be interesting to see how the communication is going to work between commander-SL and if there is any SL-SL comma.
        sigpic


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        • #5
          Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

          Each commander is going to have six squads of five plus two players on overflow in a 32v32 round.

          What I would do is commit one squad to capturing AB or DE so that the other squads can focus on pushing forward. This capture squad will have to defend A or E if the opposing team tries to back cap. If the enemy does not try to backcap, this squad will be committed to fighting over Charlie. Have two squads push with armor across the B <--> C <--> D road and engage and destroy any enemy armor encountered. Their job is to put pressure on B/D, keeping at least two enemy squads on the defensive and the enemy armor tied up. Have one squad take the transport helo right away and take C. If we cannot take or hold Charlie, then I would pass the order to whoever is closest to destroy the pillars.

          This leaves two squads. I would use one of them off the start in pushing Charlie from the ground. If we manage to hold Charlie well enough with the two infantry+armor squads and the one squad on the flag, then this squad can attack into B/D or even extend out into A/E. The last squad will need to be flexible, they're going to be filling in the gaps wherever they happen. Usually I would commit these guys to attempting to backcap A/E, but it all depends on the tempo of the round.

          The two overflow guys can do whatever they want. They're stuck with a bad situation, so I'll let them do their thing. I would love if these guys would be a dedicated team on attack helo, as that means another full squad doesn't have to man it.


          The big advantage I see to this setup is the spawn points around Charlie. By taking Charlie flag when it's still a skyscraper, we get a perfect jumping off point for the second Charlie squad and the flex squad to attack other flags. Plus the fact that the spawn points are on the tower is a massive defensive boost. The helicopters will need to be on call though to clear out the upper roof. Once Charlie comes down, the spawn points switch to along the bridges and road on the north side of the rubble, meaning that the armor+infantry squad is perfectly placed to defend. By holding this road, we guarantee "safe" spawn points for the dedicated charlie squad(s), and if the enemy takes C our tanks are in the perfect position to kill them before they can push back onto the flag.

          "Over the din of battle could be heard Lancerís maniacal laughter and it spurned us on to stay the course, not to give up, and enjoy." - Grimmfist

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          • #6
            Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

            Don't forget that attack boat in the equation. The thing is a beast with a good crew.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

              If you start E side then:

              -have a squad attack A and B each as those flags are much harder to clear than D&E as they ample provide cover from air and armor

              -control the elevator building on your side to respond to attacks on E&D
              |TG-12th| Namebot

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              • #8
                Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                I'm personally a fan of a quick rush with one, maybe two squads to cap the furthest back flag so that armor has more difficulty coming into play. If it doesn't work, you can adapt, regroup, and push en masse for another flag to be sure you have your three.

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                • #9
                  Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                  In non-beta I would focus on the my side of the map and the first flag on the opposing side. Try to keep them bottled up, via a squad on top of the building nearest A/E airdropped and focusing on Engineer and staying alive.
                  [age-c1][command]

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                  • #10
                    Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                    Why the rush to take C down? At least see if you can keep and hold it for yourself, as its a very powerful deployment area for rapid defenses of your whole zone, as well as a great area to shut down the enemy armor and air. If you can't hold or take it, then detonate.

                    Yeah, that boat is awesome, but its nothing like the ability to have infantry on very advantageous ground at B or D at a moment's notice, as well as great RPG firing lines on any defense of B/D, and excellent ability to stop a backcap towards A/E over the bay. Stuff that tower full of engineers and you're good. I'd also go so far as to say that, contrary to usual TG doctrine, to push forward and attempt to actually cap B/D as well. You can easily fall back since by the time your attack has failed, you've respawned at C well before a counter-attack, and the pressure/firing positions you can get jumping from C give you a great ability to threaten the flag, especially for B. Further, you have the bay pretty much covered and PLD-spotting recons can see anyone trying to swim/sneak across. The layout is such that you don't need to defend your own version of B/D, and putting pressure on the enemy team has two advantages: you make it hard for them to form up to threaten C (as they have to go around B/D) and you increase your lead in the event that C comes down. That last one is important, because C coming down has pretty large effects on the map flow as a whole, and a solid lead can be quickly eaten up after it comes down.

                    If you don't take C, try again once or twice, and then focus everything on bringing that sucker down, even if you have to sacrifice a flag to do so. Flags can be retaken, the enemy's advantage by holding the tower is too great. As much as possible, try to grab the boat as soon as it spawns. It either a) kills helos pretty much instantly or b) gives you a good option for harassing tanks that try to defend the bridges, allowing your own armor to push across. Both are excellent force multipliers, and which is your preference should come down to how well the armor/air match has gone all round. In this case, once C is down, you should again push forward slightly, especially towards B, without necessarily trying to cap it. You're instead trying to push forward to deny them the excellent high-ground overlooking the flag, which gives airbursters the ability to pretty much kill any defense of C from C itself. You need to push forward to at least the far shoreline. This has the added advantage of letting you fall back as you die, so a set-back doesn't result in the flag being lost.
                    I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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                    • #11
                      Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                      Personally, I would send 4 of my 6 squads to their side of the map to hold them back at B/D, then let my 5 squad capture our side of the map, and my 6 squad deploy snipers and engineers to C via transport helo for air suppression. Then, bring my squads back to bridge and split them 3/3 between holding the bridge (making good use of the tow, and maybe the boat, and bring up armor), and C (or some other skyscraper on enemy side of the water) to suppress air. 3 squads with 3 snipers and 10 engineers and 2 support for ammo will ensure that NO AIR AT ALL can come out of their side of the map... and 3 squads of infantry/armor/boat/tow holding the bridge will ensure that no armor or transports can travel to our side via land.

                      If anything gets by the air squads, we can pull a single squad back to recollect our assets and still have plenty to hold bridge and air down.

                      I would prefer the tall skyscraper above E for air if playing American and the tallest skyscraper near A if playing China for air defense. These allow you to laze targets as soon as they lift off.

                      I would also order all my SLs to pull away from combat, but stay near direct objective to serve as spawn points. SLs should almost always play Sniper so they can get kills from a long distance while providing a spawn point very close to given orders.

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

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                      • #12
                        Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                        Originally posted by Arithea View Post
                        I'm personally a fan of a quick rush with one, maybe two squads to cap the furthest back flag so that armor has more difficulty coming into play. If it doesn't work, you can adapt, regroup, and push en masse for another flag to be sure you have your three.
                        I like this approach with a flex option. Keeping your flag nearest your ucb is key to keeping your ground assets in play, taking the enemies flag nearest their UCB makes it difficult to bring their ground assets in play. If you have one or to capable armor teams you'll control the map.


                        For the shanghai map I would rush the enemies back flag as priority 1, cap our own back flag as priority 2 take down C and then avoid it. I would then spend the rest of the round flexing A to B or E to D moving the troops to the least defended of the positions .

                        In most cases the enemy will try to use C as a forward deploy point either B or D depending on which flag your holding and then focus on getting back their back flag. When the enemy starts to cap one your resources need to move to the otherone

                        If you do a good job of defending their back flag , more enemy resources will tend to come your way . How many resources you tie up at the back flag will determine how much of the remainder of the map you can control.

                        To maintain a spawn point near the enemies back flag on shanghai the tower northeast of the A flag and due west of the echo flag were used very effectively in many of the beta rounds that I played usually via the transport chopper. Key is to use them as an assault launch point and not a sniper community club house. If you lose the back flag and the spawn point use the PWC to get back over to the back flag.

                        The squad composition that I liked for holding the back flag was 1recon, 1 assault and 3 engineers I'd fore go the support, the rate the armor was rolling out the engies were dying at a pretty good clip no need to worry about running out of ammo.

                        Never got the chance to try it but a good old fashion ROFL copter deploying spawn points AKA SL's to various roofs around that map with an attack heli escort could be really awesome and make the troop movements very dynamic
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                          Map layout:
                          US: A -> B -> C
                          CN: E -> D -> C

                          Observations:
                          1. Map is balanced in CN favour. With "spawn on anyone", actually cleaning up A of CN attackers is pretty much impossible. Contrast with US attacking Echo: within 10s, the entire E building is destroyed: no cover, and at least 2+ tanks looking down.
                          2. Charlie is a wildcard while it's in the air: helos can do sexy things to it, there are sudden wipes from taking the penthouse elevator ... it's tough to attack. Bringing it down allows friendly armor to assist friendlies attacking.
                          3. Attack helos and tanks, no matter how good, will usually only bother each other. Net effect is nearly none map strategy. Prove me wrong :)

                          My US strategy:
                          1. Charlie's going down ASAP.
                          2. 5 on A, 5 on B: not because I think opfor will hit both, but if they do, 1 squad isn't enough to clear it.
                          3. 10 on Charlie, and 12 in armor (3 tanks, APC, gunship, transport helo). Charlie's important. Strategy hinges on the Charlie 10 being actually able to hold bleed on Charlie.
                          4. Tanks + APC are holding north Charlie, and dissuading infantry from swimming / bridge hopping to Charlie flag capture radius.
                          5. Transport helo's one and only job is to ensure all roofs around A and B are clear. The Alpha 5 and Bravo 5 can't actually hold this if opfor keeps spawning on the rooftops. Attack helo can help with rooftop cleanup, but more than likely it'll be engaged with hostile Gunship.

                          If this works poorly:
                          - Charlie 10 are wiped, armor is pushed back. At that point commit 15 or 20 to Charlie, but quickly as you're now in double jeopardy. Tanks are rushing Charlie as sacrificial lambs to buy infantry cover/time.
                          - APC can snipe from Bravo to Charlie ruins to buy infantry some peace.
                          - Last resort: hit flag closest to OPFOR main to disrupt armor, hope they overcommit, then again grab A+B and hit C in force.

                          If this works well:
                          - Charlie 10 are bored (hiding from snipers/tanks on other side of the river), Alpha 5 and Bravo 5 are bored to tears. At this point, armor superiority should be evident: 1 tank (Alpha spawn preferably) falls back to Alpha/Bravo ASAP, and we sort out a squad on Charlie that's falling back. If I'm holding A-B-C, they'll get cute and hit Alpha. I'd almost instruct the transport helo to watch the water East of Alpha for boats or APCs or transport helos.
                          - Obviously A5 and B5 need to have recon balls up near the water 24/7 as in a bleed situation hostiles will only try Charlie for so long.

                          ---

                          tl;dr: hold AB solidly, overcommit to C, keep AB guardians on their toes, armor's irrelevant :)

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                          • #14
                            Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...



                            Great video, and explains why commander mode is back in BF4. Watching a few BF3 videos this week made me realise all the nice subtle changes they have made in the look and feel.

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                            • #15
                              Re: If there WERE commander on Shanghai...

                              Haha, the BF3 sun being blinding is great. So's the BF3 Medic just whispering "please get shot please get shot" while repeatedly charging his defibs. Sad they never went to 2142 and acknowledged its status as the best vanilla BF. :P
                              I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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