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Is it me or is some damage hosed?

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  • #16
    Re: Is it me or is some damage hosed?

    There are some weird headshot/damage bugs going on too. For instance, reportedly, if two players headshot each other within enough of a time window (milliseconds), both players will instantly die regardless of respective health. Some bullets are also supposedly hitting multiple hitboxes for double damage, like in the BF3 beta.

    As to the 50cal, its clearly a vehicle-balance thing. The 50cal sniper rifle pickups will one-hit-kill in any hitbox at any range, if I recall correctly. This means that whatever LMGs they've mounted on the tanks are clearly being balanced to nerf tanks relative to their BF3 incarnation, which is a good thing. The spread on the gunner LMG could be slightly tighter, but the coax gun is still a powerhouse.

    edit: Also, yes, the tank shells are AP which is why you pretty much have to hit someone with the shell to do appreciable damage. You'll be (supposedly) able to unlock HE rounds later, though I personally don't think I will if the AP represents the high point of tank v tank damage.

    edit: vvvvvv The very first upgrade in the defensive tree (so, the one you start with) has 10% damage reduction on chest rounds only, iirc.
    I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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    • #17
      Re: Is it me or is some damage hosed?

      Yes I had heard the 50 cal sniper was a ohk anywhere. However I hit a body shot the other day and it wounded instead of killed.

      I wonder if, aside from beta issues, some of the damage discrepancies could be as a result of 'defensive squad perks'. Im pretty sure at least one of them mitigates damage on body shots etc.


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      • #18
        Re: Is it me or is some damage hosed?

        The first rung of the defensive perk group "reduces damage to the chest by %10".
        |TG-12th| Namebot

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        • #19
          Re: Is it me or is some damage hosed?

          Originally posted by Wicks View Post
          I know what you're saying about the dmr's Lancer however in beta at least I think the dmr platform can work if it's viewed differently to the 'traditional' BF Recon roles which broadly seem to be long gun or aggressive recon.

          If the dmr is used in a support capacity it can fill a gap in the market between assault and the long gun sniper. Firstly it allows for extremely rapid, high impact of medium to long range targets. Far more so then a long gun due to the semi auto nature and mag capacity. Secondly on the short side of medium engagements you can either roll with the Acog or use canted iron sights to pretty decent effect.

          I think, for me at least, what has been key is to understand that you are there to facilitate the movement of your squad and its more mobile assault style classes from an intermediate position.

          For example, your squad is pushing the now flattened charlie flag from let's say delta. You can either assume a standoff position on delta and begin marking and engaging or advance part way with your squad then drop a knee and become an anchor point. From this 'off the shoulder of the squad' position you can rapidly engage multiple targets. Now the nature of the undulating, rubble strewn terrain on Charlie means you're likely to get a lot of fleeting targets. So 20 in the mag and 1 in the chamber gives you the ability to put a lot of hurt out, killing and severely wounding a lot of targets. Its also extremely effective as a counter sniper weapon. I've had a lot of luck putting two rounds down range and killing snipers before their round impacts anywhere near me. A heavy barrel, whilst increasing recoil does seem to increase bullet velocity considerably. Plus the increase in recoil can be mitigated to some degree with the angled foregrip.

          I also think its important to consider the value of wounding/near killing multiple targets on an objective as part of supporting an assault. I've picked up a lot of assists on top of kills by ensuring every target on the objective gets some attention, you know kill what you can but spread the lead love around. That way the assault force is confronted with an entrenched opponent who is somewhat suppressed, has a few dead and possibly some who are healing. All of which facilities prosecuting the assault and clearing the objective.

          I personally feel the DMR can fill that type of role very well. Plus the MK11 sounds beautiful when you fire it lol.:-)
          While this is all well and good, I still don't think it fits right on the Recon.

          DMRs deal 30 damage at their end damage falloff range of 75 meters. Three hits is 90 damage. At that same range bolt action .308 rifles like the CSLR4 and M40A5 are dealing ~80 damage in one shot, and they can insta-kill with a headshot.

          Most of the time I've run a DMR and plinked at someone at medium/long range I've gotten two, sometimes one, hit in before losing the target. Landing three quickly I've found is the exception and either means my target is totally without cover or the DMR has been exceptionally kind to me. A bolt action headshot is not an unreasonable proposition, and even if I hit the torso with a bolt action that means I have exposed myself to enemy fire for less time than it would take to make repeated shots with a DMR. The final distance at which a DMR is capable of 3-shot kills is when its damage equals 34, which is close to 55 meters if I'm reading symthic's charts correctly. I've had better luck landing six shots with the AK-12 or seven with the AK5c at this range than trying to quickly land three with a DMR. That isn't to say it can't happen, but you have to slow your shooting so much to guarantee three hits that your target will have ample time to return fire or run away.

          At close range, say 30m, one shot from a DMR deals ~40 damage. One shot from a bolt action .308 is dealing damage in the 90s. Is takes two from a DMR to come close and not meet a bolt action shot here. If we want to talk about finishing off someone who's already wounded, we definitely have a winner. If you're wounded at all a bolt action round will probably kill you. And this lead is maintained across the entire damage fall off, a .308 bolt action is still dealing more than double a DMRs damage at all ranges per shot.

          And this doesn't even factor in .338 bolt actions that will be in release. Imagine what those will do.

          On the note of counter sniping, I guess it works kind of. I just don't think its ideal for the task. If a sniper is giving you time to nail three/four DMR shots into him, he either is blissfully unaware of your presence or is actually terrible. Even you nail a headshot with a DMR, you're dealing somewhere in 60-88 damage across the entire spectrum. A good sniper isn't going to sit there and get bursted down. He's going to either run, or in the case of a rooftop he's going to disappear from view until his health regenerates (beta) and then come back up to look for you. Meanwhile another bolt action can just headshot that pesky sniper and put him down for good.
          Now if we apply this role to other kits, the XM25 is the perfect anti-sniper weapon considering as most snipers (myself included) prefer to fire from some kind of cover or high ground, meaning there's almost always a convenient surface to dial the range in with. I think DMR support can do counter-sniper and ranged burst decently well, and having an ammo box available essentially combines two roles into one kit. If I run a DMR, its usually in this capacity. Running a DMR on the recon still seems to me like wasted potential.

          For reference, I'm working off incomplete data. I'd cite actual bullets to kill and time to kill values, but they don't exist yet.
          http://symthic.com/bf4-multi-compari...=None&a52=None
          http://symthic.com/bf4-weapon-charts...one&attc2=None

          "Over the din of battle could be heard Lancerís maniacal laughter and it spurned us on to stay the course, not to give up, and enjoy." - Grimmfist

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          • #20
            Re: Is it me or is some damage hosed?

            Good points Lancer but I suppose some of this is personal taste if I'm honest.

            I personally dislike things like DPS charts, particularly when we start drifting into areas like 'chance of hitting x possible damage' in parallel, specifically when it starts informing weapon platform choices. For starters, to me, it feels like I am playing a stats based game, like MW Dungeons and Dragons lol. Where's the immersion, where's the realism?

            Secondly I think stats are fine if people like them, however I also think it tends to ignore the melding of playstyle with weapon. Some people naturally fit a weapon platform better than others. For example my background is primarily games where Long guns perform in much more 'realistic' fashion as opposed to the the majority of games. They are extremely lethal, generally a one shot kill or near enough at ranges out to 2k approx dependent on game. However they are also unwieldy and generally only able to be used from say the crouched or prone position. DMR's on the other hand are much more of a squad based weapon and are often essentially accurized battle rifles. As such I understand how to employ them and have realistic expectations of where they sit in the performance spectrum, please note I am not for one moment implying you do not.

            A DMR with 4 times scope gives me rapid single fire, large mag capacity, good situational awareness, in a pinch a slightly cumbersome single shot battle rifle in short medium range. I hope to some degree the cone of fire is fixed as something like a MK11 shouldn't stray all over the place just because you fired a couple of quick shots at 30 yards. I think that issue certainly skews the view of their viability, at least at this time.

            I also think another key issue, for me at least, with the cross platform weapons is to no longer view the long guns as defining the Recon role. Recon now makes a very good squad leader or spotter role, potentially a two man Recon team within a squad, one long gun, one carbine or DMR would be a very interesting proposition dependent on the situation.

            I do agree that a dmr on the support class is another, very useful, variation. With the ammo box, XM25 and a DMR you have quite a potent stand off class. I personally also run it on my engineer if I am holding high groud for a bit in an anti air capacity where I may be static for a little while. Nice to be able to reach out from the rooftops rather than plink away less effectively with a carbine.

            Lastly I am having a different experience with damage and shots to kill with the DMR at medium and long range. Whilst it's entirely circumstantial (prior damage etc), I am getting a fair few one shot kills and the majority of kills I've had so far seem to be mostly 2 shots or 3 rarely. Not that I have thousands of kills with the gun by any means, just what I have experienced thus far. I am trying to capture video to demonstrate tonight.

            On a very personal level, I like how the DMR's force/teach me to shoot. I have to track and land consistent shots, at least two, and that is all on me.

            If you have no objections and people would like it I can spin our conversation off to a new thread to prevent getting too far off topic from the OP, I think it's a very interesting discussion in it's own right. If so I'll move our posts, let me know.


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