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  • Squad member expectations

    Following up on the "squad leaders" thread I wanted to make one for squad members and what is expected of a SM in my squad.

    When I used to SL back in 2142 and PR I expected a few really basic things when someone joined my squad:
    - The SM must ask the SL what kit he/she wants.( Do not even try to join and grab a sniper kit unless specifically asked for).

    - Always be on the SL's six, no orders needed(it's a squad, act like it).

    - While having a mic in my squad is 99% of the time a must, I do not mind the occasional players with no mics as long as they can still follow orders and follow point 2 above.

    If anyone else has something to add or something they personally do or do not want to see in their squad, go right ahead and post it! If we know how individual SL's operate then the squad cohesion would be much much improved.

  • #2
    Re: Squad member expectations

    I recall having a thread or two like this in the 2142 forums, and it was really nice to know what everyone liked and expected--good post, Kwalc!

    I tend to SL quite a bit, so here's what I like to see:
    - Medics. Plenty of them. If I haven't asked for a specific kit, you can just assume I'd like you to come in as assault.
    - Communication. I talk constantly while I'm SL-ing. If you can't hear me, given that VoIP is pretty spotty, let me know via chat--I do keep up with it during gameplay--and I'll type out orders. (I also try to keep the squad order in game current.) Also, call out contacts you see and their direction as well as Q-spotting, and let people know when you're down. If you don't have a mic, that's okay; just please use the in-game chat as much as is feasible.
    - Adaptability and mobility. Sometimes it's good to stay and defend a flag, but even while defending I don't stay still. This plays into...
    - Situational awareness. Given that I'm a mobile player most times, it's up to my SMs to keep up with where I am in relation to them. This contributes greatly to squad cohesion; if everyone's sticking fairly close to the SL, then everyone should be within easy revive range (though this isn't quite feasible yet given the default revive timer).

    On the flip side, here's what you can expect from me as an SL:
    - Communication. Lots of it. As I said, I pretty much don't shut up while I'm SLing. I also regularly call out spotted enemy positions, enemy vehicles, and deaths.
    - Adaptability and mobility. Defending, attacking, or working asset denial, there's a good chance the orders will change fairly frequently. I also don't stay in the same place for very long.
    - Situational awareness. I do my best to keep apprised of the entire tactical and strategic situation in the round and make my decisions based on what I think is best for the team (or what the CO has ordered).

    You'll notice both lists are very similar. That's because I hold my SMs to the same standard to which I hold myself. I lead from the front and by example.

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    • #3
      Re: Squad member expectations

      Led my first two rounds last night. I did lots of squadleading in BF2, POE and PR. Some in BF3 but not as much as the other titles. I'm typically on a defensive posture when squad leading usually defending a flag on the front lines or taking back one we've lost behind the lines.

      I'm generally pretty loose about kits unless the situation calls for something specific I'll let them go with that they want.

      In the past I typically ran infantry only squads but I think some of the maps now are so vehicle and armor heavy I'm changing up my approach. Last night I had a couple of good armor guys and let them know to keep bringing up armor for squad support.

      I'll issue attack and defend orders and typically let the squad members use discretion on deployment. With so many qualified players on the TG server placement issues usually take care of themselves. Occasionally I'll order the squad to change focus from one area to another but more often than not a general attack or defend order is where I leave it.

      I did have an issue with one squad member last night who was operating a second tank. I issued a defend order on a flag and ordered armor to a position between the enemy and the flag. I wanted a blocking force to help defend the flag. I used specific language about movement and disposition but the tank remained where it was lone wolfing away from the squad. I repeated my orders two minutes and 30 seconds after that kicked him from the squad. I was hoping he would come back so I could tell him why which made me realize I should have given a verbal warning before kicking. That would help reinforce what we want from the player base. Next time I will.
      sigpic
      |TG-1st|Grunt
      ARMA Admin (retired)
      Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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      • #4
        Re: Squad member expectations

        Damonte has been squad leading quite a bit since the release of BF4 and well... he just thought that he should share a few of this thoughts on what makes a good squad member in his eyes.

        1. Stick with the squad. When the squad leader says "Attack this point", don't think to yourself "Awesome, I'll flank waaaay around this way while the rest of the squad goes that way!" This is a Bad Idea. You will die... alone. So very alone. Your squad will not be able to save you. Your squad leader will not have the full force of his squad available to him when he needs it. When the squad leader suddenly orders his squad to move to another point, you may be woefully out of position to join them. Stick with your squad!

        2. When your squad leader says "We're moving to point X", don't grab a tank, helicopter, jet, LAV or unicycle and meet the squad there. First of all, you are breaking rule #1. Second of all, your squad leader needs to know what resources he has to accomplish his goals. If he's under the impression that he has four infantry with him and suddenly he has three and a tank... that will take time for him to re-analyze the situation. His plan of slipping through that building and into that narrow alley is now shot because... you had to bring a tank! If you think doing something like that might be a good idea, ask the squad leader for permission first!

        3. When going for a revive on a fellow team member, don't assume that whomever shot them just decided to go smoke a cigarette in celebration of their marvelous kill. Assume... always... that they are waiting for someone to try to revive that target and have them (and you) scoped in. Always... always... clear the area before reviving!

        These are but a few musings from the serenity that is the mind of Damonte. More may follow.
        Last edited by Damonte; 11-01-2013, 11:31 AM.

        "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

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        • #5
          Re: Squad member expectations

          with the revive timers as they are, you have about 2 seconds to clear the area before attempting the revive.
          .

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          • #6
            Re: Squad member expectations

            Originally posted by Damonte View Post
            Damonte has been squad leading quite a bit since the release of BF4 and well... he just thought that he should share a few of this thoughts on what makes a good squad member in his eyes.

            1. Stick with the squad. When the squad leader says "Attack this point", don't think to yourself "Awesome, I'll flank waaaay around this way while the rest of the squad goes that way!" This is a Bad Idea. You will die... alone. So very alone. Your squad will not be able to save you. Your squad leader will not have the full force of his squad available to him when he needs it. When the squad leader sudden orders his squad to move to another point, you may be woefully out of position to join them. Stick with your squad!

            2. When your squad leader says "We're moving to point X", don't grab a tank, helicopter, jet, LAV or unicycle and meet the squad there. First of all, you are breaking rule #1. Second of all, your squad leader needs to know what resources he has to accomplish his goals. If he's under the impression that he has four infantry with him and suddenly he has three and a tank... that will take time for him to re-analyze the situation. His plan of slipping through that building and into that narrow alley is now shot because... you had to bring a tank! If you think doing something like that might be a good idea, ask the squad leader for permission first!
            I'd like to echo these sentiments. Stick nice and close with the rest of the squad, it makes things like having the SL and one other man form a base of fire element(ideally as support class) while the rest move onto a flag possible outside of a drilling IHS. Nuts to butts.
            Calling out contacts, movement and casualties is also very important. Don't be afraid to speak up! Half the fun of running around with a solid group of TGers is being comfortable enough to BS when you've got a few quiet moments, and that isn't going to happen if you aren't comfortable enough or willing to speak up about the important stuff.

            Originally posted by Zoraster View Post
            with the revive timers as they are, you have about 2 seconds to clear the area before attempting the revive.
            Does anyone know if it's possible to lengthen this time? My knowledge of the finer points of server settings is nil.
            Un Equipo de Trabajo Para Bien de Todos

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            • #7
              Re: Squad member expectations

              Another ray from the tranquil dawn of Damonte's ponderings.

              4. Notify your squad and your squad leader when you come into contact with the enemy, when you die and when you are revived or spawn in. Your squad needs to know what's happening around them and your squad leader needs to know what is happening to his squad. If you are downed, alert your squad so that they know you need a revive. Also, inform them who it was who shot you.

              Consider the example that you are holding a flank for your team and you are shot by Solder7193785. There is most likely a significantly different threat level than if you were shot by TG-56th Arithea. Arithea is undoubtedly accompanied by any combination of Aruncado, Anospa, LancerMancer, Zoticus and ReaperAssault. In this example, this is a very well coordinated IHS. Your squad leader needs to be made aware of this enemy contact so that he can properly assess the threat and direct a response. Soldier7193785 will most likely receive a lesser threat response.

              Your squad leader needs to know when you are in contact with the enemy. He needs to know where you are when it happens. He needs to know when you go down and when you are revived or spawn back in. He needs to know all this so that he can keep track of the state of his squad. It is incredibly frustrating as a squad leader to get the "Last Man Standing" notification and think "What happened to the squad?"

              Keep your squad informed of your status at all times.

              "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

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              • #8
                Re: Squad member expectations

                Originally posted by Damonte View Post
                Also, inform them who it was who shot you.

                ...

                Your squad leader needs to be made aware of this enemy contact so that he can properly assess the threat and direct a response. Soldier7193785 will most likely receive a lesser threat response.
                This. I know a lot of folks are newer to TG and may not know the community members and their coordination level/skill level/etc. just yet, but you can probably assume that if someone has TG tags (and especially IHS tags), they have buddies and are pretty well coordinated. And even if you're new/unfamiliar, one of your squad mates might have a better idea of the threat level as long as they know who it was who took you out.

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                • #9
                  Re: Squad member expectations

                  Here's mine if you're unfortunate enough to end up stuck in my squad, for once, I'll try and be brief.

                  - Ask me where to spawn
                  - Ask me what kit I need
                  - If we have a recon in the squad do not bring another recon kit
                  - Acknowledge orders. If I give a move/attack order, verbal or on the map (I try and do both obviously), "On it" or "moving" will suffice
                  - If I say 'hold fire' try and move without engaging rather than shooting at the first thing you see
                  - Communicate. Tell me what you are doing, especially if you are exercising initiative, tell the squad if you are clearing the first floor of a building and confirm when you have
                  - Cover your corner. If we stop or hold, find a direction or doorway and cover it, tell the squad what you have covered (ie direction etc)
                  - If I am holding back in overwatch to provide a spawn exit the 'spawn area' smartly. Choose a different route even if it takes you longer, don't give away the spawn location
                  - Don't work on your kits in my squad, pick the appropriate tool for the job
                  - Remind me, point things out, speak up. I used to SL a lot, now I am rusty and old. If you see something, say something
                  - Retain a sense of humour, you're going to need it:row__685:


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                  • #10
                    Re: Squad member expectations

                    I probably won't SL too much with SL-only spawning, but it is still fun to run squads in BF4. For me, the best part of playing battlefield 2 and 4 is the simple force multiplier effect of VoIP and spotting with an engaged squad. Few things are more fun or more rewarding in game than spotting targets and watching your squad take them down. On offense or defense.

                    In my experience playing BF2, squad cohesion and engagement spikes when you accomplish stuff, so I try to get us a big win early on. It's so much easier (and funner for me) to manage by exception rather than manage every single operational detail. Getting a couple quick wins usually gets everyone in the squad engaged and self directing their efforts to support the next task, and then it's off to the races, objective-wise.

                    If you do happen into a squad of mine, don't expect micromanagement. I prefer to tell squads my simple objective and rationale (e.g. Get bleed back by taking C), maybe a high level tactic like suppress and flank, and have squad members self distribute and self assign based on the objective. If I need a particular role, kit or vehicle, l'll ask for it. Otherwise, I'm counting on you to be a smart, engaged squad member and to use your autonomy to best accomplish the objective.

                    I'm also playing to have fun, and try to keep it light in my squads. One thing I definitely hate is people talking in VoIP nonstop about something unrelated to the game at hand. Unless we're defending a back flag or something, communication should be focused and efficient.

                    Other than that, my expectation is just that people play smart, communicate efficiently, have fun and keep our squad perks alive.
                    Beatnik

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                    • #11
                      Re: Squad member expectations

                      Originally posted by Zoraster View Post
                      with the revive timers as they are, you have about 2 seconds to clear the area before attempting the revive.
                      This is helping a bit



                      meh bad crop.
                      Last edited by |3illY; 11-02-2013, 01:38 AM. Reason: bad crop

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                      • #12
                        Re: Squad member expectations

                        My Squad Member Requirements:
                        • what Damonte said.
                        • what Wicks said.
                        • what Arithea said.


                        Seriously. Go back and read all three of those posts. They're fantastic. I had lots of rounds tonight where I was running tight squads. Every time I had squad mates who listened, communicated and executed on orders, we were top of the team. I had no less than three rounds tonight where my squad alone racked up over 100 cumulative kills and far fewer deaths (and I only played 7 rounds). When you have a group of people that work together and do the job well, it's really a sight to behold.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Squad member expectations

                          I spot a worrying trend - but let me start by saying I have not stepped up yet.

                          This trend seems to be - Q spot flag - run and go get it. Not very tactical at all. Now this is not a critique of SL's, more maybe of the tools given and the newness of the title. But surely there is more than this? Is there a way to place map markers a la BF2? Go here, move from that point? So far all I have experienced is sprint to the flag and shoot things?
                          Last edited by Jeepo; 11-03-2013, 01:14 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Squad member expectations

                            Originally posted by Jeepo View Post
                            I spot a worrying trend - but let me start by saying I have not stepped up yet.

                            This trend seems to be - Q spot flag - run and go get it. Not very tactical at all. Now this is not a critique of SL's, more maybe of the tools given and the newness of the title. But surely there is more than this? Is there a way to place map markers a la BF2? Go her, move from that point? So far all I have experienced is sprint to the flag and shoot things?
                            You must be in the wrong forum go look under planetside <|:{P
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Re: Squad member expectations

                              a very good question about map markers, but the basic problem I think will be slowly solved over time. the problem is that we're all very new to these maps. So as a SL getting a CO order or a SM getting a SL order, we just don't have experience with the maps to do a whole lot other than take fairly direct routes. As we play more, it will become more natural to do things like approach a flag from a more advantageous position that doesn't put us in an easily attacked position and so forth. Subtlety and cleverness will come in time.
                              .

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