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  • Making room for members?

    Yesterday I was on our server. I could not find a good squad. All squads with free slots I checked out (and I checked out all there were) were pub squads not being led. I tried to encourage the SL of some of them to lead but gave up after getting no response after talking to him the third or so time. Then I switched the team for I might be more lucky there. I actually found a squad with 2 other TG guys. One of which I could not hear properly due to VOIP issues. The other one had issues with his mic it appeared. None of us were SL. The SL had no microphone and was not leading the squad via chat. At least he marked objectives.
    Our squad had a very low cohesion most of the time due to the lack of a talking SL and the other VOIP issues. I suggested to the other two TG guys to create a new squad with me so we would at least have one of us as the SL – and thus a talking squadleader. I guess they didn't hear me well either, as I suggested this three times (once via chat though... :/ ) and did not get a proper response. I finally got annoyed and looked for another squad.
    There was one with 4 TG guys and one pub guy. The pub guy had his VOIP disabled. I thus asked the SL whether I could join their squad, as this pub guy was not communicating with them anyway. And actually this is against our own server rules... To my surprise I got as an answer, that this guy was cooperating well with the rest of the squad. But honestly, how well can you coordinate and cooperate with others if you don't have VOIP enabled? Anyway. I thought to myself, if this guy is doing fine in the squad, it would be unfair to kick him out. But leaving another TG player stranded without a real cooperating squad while there basically was a slot that could have been freed kind of not felt right to me either. So I asked myself, what would I have done? I very well understand the action the SL of the squad I asked to get into took. But how do we handle situations like this officially here? Are we 'kind to strangers' or 'loyal to members' in these kind of situations?

    This is the actual question I wanted to get to. The lamenting above is merely background information (though maybe a little bit of venting frustration too :P ).

  • #2
    Re: Making room for members?

    Evilhardt, I remember you! Yeah, the VOIP is poor still at this stage of the game. I could barely hear you say " This is not proper squad leading!". Then some more garbled stuff then you left. The other fella in our squad has speech problems so he never talks. There are a few others in TG that don't talk for some reason or other. Guess they will eventually get booted from server cause they don't squad lead. But I still love my quiet buddies. We just trying our best to play this game with our limitations and within the constraints of the game.

    As for me, I cant talk and lead at the same time. Some form of autism. I'll start a sentence then pause when I cant quiet find the proper word for what I want to say so I leave it hanging. Very discouraging. One of the reasons I don't join a clan. Some of these guys have very strong female brains and can talk non stop while mowing down a whole enemy squad without missing a beat. Britthimself is one of them! Thank God for quiet VOIP! heh

    Evil, remember the rules. Follow your squad leader orders even if in doing so your squad gets slaughtered over and over again! Of course if your lucky and get in a squad that the sl says nothing, then you can lone wolf and play your way. Just sneak around in the boundaries waiting for an unsuspecting squad to come by! Oh the thrill! But don't post it in the forums what your doing or you will get banned by the admins!

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    • #3
      Re: Making room for members?

      Huh? Why would I join our server if I wanted to lonewolf? If I feel like lonewolfing (or at least not like talking and being talked to) I join some random server. I would have gladly followed our pub SL if he had actually led the squad rather than just occasionally mark objectives. Even under these circumstances I did the best to follow him and keep up the cohesion. As he never told us where to spawn when he was down I always waited for him to spawn and would then spawn on him. So it is not like I did not obey his "orders" or anything like that. But because I can have that form of leading basically anywhere I left. If I don't get teamplay I can just as well play on a server with a ping that is lower than 150 ms to me...

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      • #4
        Re: Making room for members?

        Not sure what gunney's talking about.... But I was in the squad you were trying to get into. In this case, the squad member was doing a good job of sticking with the squad, supporting us following orders. Not sure we were even aware that he had his comms off as he was working with us well. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, as long as they aren't breaking any rules, it's up to the discretion of the SL.

        Know that this wasn't in any way a slight against you, instead just a full squad working well together and wanting to keep it going. Also, we should be doing our best to integrate with new players and helpthem have an enjoyable time on our server, and to see what were all about. I know though how it can be extremely frustrating when your hopping from squad to squad trying to find one in which people are communicating. This being said, one round I'm which I was stuck with a squad of puppies, with a SL not communicating, I finally got one of the other squad Members to turn his Mic on and begin communicating. We ended up starting a squad and had a decent round.
        |TG-6th|CorpDuty

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        • #5
          Re: Making room for members?

          I did not assume it to be a slight against me, don't worry. ; )

          When I said it was actually against the server rules I was referring to this specif rule here, as can be found in the server rules sticky:

          "2) Audio is required
          - Players MUST be able to hear VOIP. Use of a microphone is strongly encouraged."


          Also, note that I am not intending to accuse you guys as having broken the server rules. I merely stated that it actually was against the rules to make sure people consider this when responding to my question of how we should act in such situations.

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          • #6
            Re: Making room for members?

            Technically not using a mic is NOT against server rules and generally has never been on our servers. The basic requirement is to be able to hear voip and follow orders given over voip, not be able to transmit. Obviously it is ideal if someone has a mic and we would somewhat prefer it if you are assuming leadership positions but we would not exclude someone on the basis of being unable to transmit voip.


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            • #7
              Re: Making room for members?

              I was the squad leader in question who had the member with no voip. Corps was in the squad too. I felt bad not letting you in but on the other hand the squaddie in question was communicating via text and doing a very good job supporting the team and following orders. I really had little basis to kick him and looking at the bigger picture I think kicking him to make room for you would do more harm than good for the TG server in the big picture. It's the players who follow orders we want to encourage to become regulars.

              I know squad leading isn't for everyone but your scenario is a perfect opportunity to start and lead a squad as you see fit. Again-it's not for everyone and I get that but starting a squad and then asking for members seems like the perfect response to your dilemma. That is exactly what I did yesterday. I joined up, found the existing squads either full or lacking leadership so I branched off on my own and led by example. This won't work if you aren't comfortable as lead though so I don't know what the answer is if that is the case.
              sigpic
              |TG-1st|Grunt
              ARMA Admin (retired)
              Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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              • #8
                Re: Making room for members?

                Gotcha :P

                I'm not going to be able to answer that, and will leave it to the admins, as in this instance, although he wasn't communicating, he was doing what was expected of him in the squad.

                As a side, where do you see that a player has their voip or speakers off?
                |TG-6th|CorpDuty

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                • #9
                  Re: Making room for members?

                  Ninja'd by wicks. Dodging my boss and replying on my phone at work lol.
                  |TG-6th|CorpDuty

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                  • #10
                    Re: Making room for members?

                    @ Grunt: Don't feel bad. As I said, I understood your decision. But this led me to ask the general question of how we officially should go about this kind of stuff.

                    Originally posted by CorpDuty View Post
                    As a side, where do you see that a player has their voip or speakers off?

                    When the speaker icon in the scoreboard is not there the guy has voip disabled. He then can neither hear nor talk.


                    Originally posted by Wicks View Post
                    Technically not using a mic is NOT against server rules and generally has never been on our servers. The basic requirement is to be able to hear voip and follow orders given over voip, not be able to transmit. Obviously it is ideal if someone has a mic and we would somewhat prefer it if you are assuming leadership positions but we would not exclude someone on the basis of being unable to transmit voip.

                    But that is exactly what I am talking about. Somebody who does not fulfill the minimum requirement of receiving voip transmissions.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Making room for members?

                      In these early months of BF4's life the real question should be.. are we making room for visitors to become new members?

                      I'd strongly suggest to everyone reading that if you see a squad that already has four regulars(TG tagged or not) in it - you should join a different squad the majority of the time. Leave that last spot open for a visitor. We need to be spreading around the TG wealth so to speak. If everyone did that:

                      - We would have more team cohesion
                      - We would breed more server regulars which is the number #1 ingredient to long term server health
                      - Rule enforcement would have a wider reach. The more TG led squads that are in operation and the more eyes we have in every squad the quicker we will weed out those uninterested in our style of play.
                      |TG-12th|mantis

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                      • #12
                        Re: Making room for members?

                        Why didn't you start your own squad Evil?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Making room for members?

                          Because it was already late in the night here and I try to avoid talking a lot when it's late, as to not annoy other people, which I'd need to do (talk a lot that is) if I was SL.

                          Edit: But that is not really relevant for the broader question.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Making room for members?

                            Originally posted by Wicks View Post
                            Technically not using a mic is NOT against server rules and generally has never been on our servers. The basic requirement is to be able to hear voip and follow orders given over voip, not be able to transmit. Obviously it is ideal if someone has a mic and we would somewhat prefer it if you are assuming leadership positions but we would not exclude someone on the basis of being unable to transmit voip.
                            *Cough*...Robocop....*cough* As long as they follow orders, I don't care if they talk.


                            "Ok....smoke sometimes works."

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                            • #15
                              Re: Making room for members?

                              If we keep implementing things on the server that presuppose communication in both directions, should we not expect VOIP?

                              Specifically, one of the arguments in favor of no mini-map is that it requires people to communicate more in a squad. But that requires all members of a squad to communicate.

                              Anyway, that'd be an entirely new course to chart, and there are likely other priorities, but while in 2006 I had some sympathy for those without mics, I have grown less and less tolerant.
                              .

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