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  • Ideas for squad leading

    (The title is a cleverly-concealed way of criticizing the current squad leading I'm seeing, while attempting to keep a friendly, productive tone, and encourage cultural shift.)

    I think that, in any given play session on a TG server, with TG-tagged players, it should be a guarantee that you will, at least once be given the order to flank an enemy position with either your whole squad, or 1-2 of your squad mates, while someone else (another squad, or the others in your squad) suppresses their position.
    Just saying. (However, since BF4 came out, I have yet to hear that order once)

    It think it would be great if squad leaders helped the squad organize and work together. Here are some examples I have not heard yet:
    - Joe and Doug, get a PLD or SOFLAM. Nancy, bring a lock-on A/V launcher.
    - Ace and Peter, you guys are in the tank. Whoever's NOT driving, go engy, and pack an AA rocket.
    - Squad, we're gonna go around the outside. Sally, take Support, and setup the mortar. When she shells my target, we're all moving in on the left flank. Ready?

    Just saying - these kind of things are the memories I have in my head from the year 2000 (or so), when we used to call in indirect fire missions for each other in Ghost Recon. Or during BF2, when SLs used to contact the jet squad directly to request air strikes. That's what I remember TG being. Not seeing that yet.

    I did it a little at first, but VOIP sucked so bad, I completely gave up. Now that some of us are using TS, if I'm lucky enough to be leading a squad that's using it, it'll be fun.
    BF4: Indiscrimin8

  • #2
    Re: Ideas for squad leading

    The problem I am having is that a lot of times I just move too fast for my squad members on the TG server. My SL style is quick, direct, ready to POUNCE. I flank when needed and stay back when needed. But when I say GO, I expect my squad to be on my behind going with me. And usually(whether its TG members or not), the squad members are not there with me.

    I dont have the time like I used to have to write down individual names of every single player that dsnt follow an order. I would basically be acting as an admin taking all those names and posting them in the CAA. Just no time.

    The problem is also that VOIP is a failure. In primetime its just not even worth having in the game. All I hear is mumbled words cutting in and out. So, from now on I will be in the proper TS channels when I am SL'ing, and anyone who likes my play style(which completely varies depending on map and flag) can join in for some nice, teamwork oriented, tactical, FAST paced action.

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    • #3
      Re: Ideas for squad leading

      The problem I am having is that a lot of times I just move too fast for my squad members on the TG server. My SL style is quick, direct, ready to POUNCE. I flank when needed and stay back when needed. But when I say GO, I expect my squad to be on my behind going with me. And usually(whether its TG members or not), the squad members are not there with me.

      I dont have the time like I used to have to write down individual names of every single player that dsnt follow an order. I would basically be acting as an admin taking all those names and posting them in the CAA. Just no time.

      The problem is also that VOIP is a failure. In primetime its just not even worth having in the game. All I hear is mumbled words cutting in and out. So, from now on I will be in the proper TS channels when I am SL'ing, and anyone who likes my play style(which completely varies depending on map and flag) can join in for some nice, teamwork oriented, tactical, FAST paced action.

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      • #4
        Re: Ideas for squad leading

        I would caution against moving so fast that your squad cannot keep up with you. This disrupts cohesion and does not take into account that you will have differently skilled squad members. Forcing (or expecting) others to maintain your pace may simply be setting conditions for failure. I use a combination of movement (variable speeds according to the situation) with stationary group ups to ensure that everyone remains together.

        A team, by virtue of being a team, must make compromises, the first of which is speed. A team of (slightly random, not-trained-together-extensively) individuals cannot move the same speed as an individual. Time to communicate, integrate orders (understand and act), navigate, and so forth must be built in. Fast is good. Fast is necessary. But fast should never break down cohesion. Otherwise you are out there on your own.

        As to Indiscriminate's observations. Good points, not quite my experience, but a good reminder of some basic options in the SL's tactical tool kit.

        Also, SLs should ask for a mic check from each squad member. This asserts leadership -- lets everyone know you are there as SL, and identifies any comm issues. Occasional calls for a group up will also identify non-compliance and allow you to eliminate the weak links in your squad.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Re: Ideas for squad leading

          Originally posted by E-Male View Post
          A team, by virtue of being a team, must make compromises, the first of which is speed. A team of (slightly random, not-trained-together-extensively) individuals cannot move the same speed as an individual. Time to communicate, integrate orders (understand and act), navigate, and so forth must be built in. Fast is good. Fast is necessary. But fast should never break down cohesion. Otherwise you are out there on your own.
          You do not have to be trained as a unit to move fast as a squad. Just stick in the vicinity of the SL.

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          • #6
            Re: Ideas for squad leading

            VOIP makes any form of sophisticated maneuvers impossible at times. I have had it many times happen to me that I tried to convey a more complex plan of approach just to realize nobody was hearing me well enough to understand what I wanted from them completely. I even had squads break apart due to voip issue. Players just strolled away on their own, the squad spread across the map, players even spawned in helis or jets without asking for permission. I would then ask in chat if they could not hear me properly. I didn't get an answer to that most of the time! It is just so frustrating. So in essence what I am trying to say is: It is not necessarily the SLs fault if the squad leading is kind of basic. He might be trying hard to do a good job, the voip just does not allow him to.
            And TS has not been a real solution for me personally so far, as every time I first needed to convince people to get there and then some pub guy joined the squad which made me use ingame voip anyway, because obviously that guy could not hear us talking if we used TS...

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            • #7
              Re: Ideas for squad leading

              Originally posted by Kwalc View Post
              You do not have to be trained as a unit to move fast as a squad. Just stick in the vicinity of the SL.
              Well, here is where we disagree. Yes, an untrained squad can move fast. I would argue that a trained squad can move fast with a higher level of cohesion. In my experience training brings considerable improvements to speed, cohesion, and related matters.

              I do not mean to criticize you method, only to note what I myself have experienced. I have often seen SLs who are otherwise very capable move at a pace that leaves the squad in disarray. I find it to be one of the more common leadership and tactical errors.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: Ideas for squad leading

                Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                Well, here is where we disagree. Yes, an untrained squad can move fast. I would argue that a trained squad can move fast with a higher level of cohesion. In my experience training brings considerable improvements to speed, cohesion, and related matters.

                I do not mean to criticize you method, only to note what I myself have experienced. I have often seen SLs who are otherwise very capable move at a pace that leaves the squad in disarray. I find it to be one of the more common leadership and tactical errors.
                Indeed we do. In previous BF titles here it was always expected that u stick with your squad and movr with your SL. And if u werent moving with him there was NO excuse. It rly is not difficult to follow a sl.

                These cohesion problems were non existent. Every night I used to hop on and play with SL's that moved fast and methodically. Most nights there were new ppl and it did not hamper the ability of the squad to move quickly. Zhohar was an excellent example of this. The sqd wpuld be informed before the round started of how things are going to be done and if u didnt agree u simply left.

                We had cohesive squads almost all the time with complete randoms

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                • #9
                  Re: Ideas for squad leading

                  For what it's worth, I find super fast moving more challenging in BF4 than it has in some other titles. The number of angles that need to be covered on an approach is quite large in this game on many maps.
                  .

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                  • #10
                    Re: Ideas for squad leading

                    Not sure how the spawning works in BF4, (hoping my wife gets it for me for x-mas :). I have been playing BF3 on console for the past two years after my PC died and now that I have a new rig i installed 2142 to occupy me until I have BF4. I am completely messed up realizing "Oh ya I have to stay up as a spawn point or drop a beacon for my squad to spawn me, and I cant spawn on them like I could in BF3 console." So in remembering the old 2142 days here I quickly got back into the groove of playing a little safer so my squad can work together properly. There aren't many good players left and only a hand full of servers so the games are not like I remember here at TG with the surgical, tactical game play I always enjoyed most. I remember quite a few good squad leaders each with there own style that worked great depending on the situation. The one thing I know is that a good SL must have a good situational awareness and have good communication with his SM and team no matter the play style your running. If that happens a good squad can work an entire opposing team of COD players running around aimlessly just looking for kills. Although i prefer having a good opposing team working together to fight, I must admit in 2142 now, it is fun to find a few random SM's that listen to my orders and teach the other unorganized team a couple lessons the TG way :) its hard to find these days though. With that said I can't wait to join you all in BF4 and through down some very loud, hard fights like I remember so fondly from here at TG. Good gaming! :)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Ideas for squad leading

                      Spawning on TG works as sort of a middle ground between BF3's all players are spawn points and 2142's only the squad leader. Squad members can only spawn on the SL, but the SL can spawn on any squad member. The "default" though is free spawning.

                      Spawning on a flag puts you pretty far away from the actual flag in many cases.
                      .

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