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  • Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

    After 8 days away during Thanksgiving break I returned to action last night and was for the most part sorely disappointed with teamwork and squad play.

    My first two rounds I was happy to find myself in a squad of TGers that provided excellent teamwork and some great tactics.

    After that most of the players left so I was looking to squad up with others. I found myself bouncing from squad to squad because none of the SL's were issuing orders or leading effectively. I exhorted each of them to pull the squad together but this proved fruitless. Several of the squads were composed of 2 or 3 snipers off doing their own thing and not communicating. After several tries I landed with a squad working together and played a couple of rounds effectively.

    Frustration continued however as I witnessed at least three very non TG players doing c4 suicides and using jets as taxis to place themselves in difficult to reach sniper spots.

    I did call the latter out in text chat but I didn't see anyone kicked from the server. I should've reported the non leading SL's and next time I will.

    My point is, and I do have one...I'd like to ask the admin team to give less warnings to these lone wolfers and kick them more frequently. If they come back that gives us an opportunity to educate them to TG play style...if the don't come back we didn't need that player here anyways.

    The violations are more prevalent than not and of late I find myself feeling lucky to land in a squad that is working together. In other words it's feels more a stroke of luck finding good play on our own servers rather than it being the norm.

    In the past my answer was to start and lead a squad but I was feeling rusty being away so long. I've also made a habit of reporting violators in text.

    In the future I will make a concentrated effort to get with an admin on TS directly but in this effort I'm asking you to drop the hammer on the violators. I've seen the admin group delivering warnings in an effort to bring some players in line. I've seen and heard on TS players getting kicked. The admins are doing a great job performing a difficult task. This email is not meant as a criticism.

    Many of you know me and how long I've been with TG. I'm very open to cultivating new players to our play style but I'm asking our admin team now for consideration of swift action on violators to help maintain our high standards. I will ramp up myself and do my part but I'm asking the admin team to give these lonewolfers and rule breakers a very short rope. Last night most of the players seemed to be out of our TG universe. If we follow through with swift and deliberate enforcement we may reduce the server population in the short run but I think that is a small price to pay. It's worth it.

    I'm trying not to make this a rant and hope it isn't seen as so...You and I have seen other respected players from TG land recently make similar posts and I wanted to add my voice to the chorus, not as a complaiint but as a request for positive action to help us all in the long run.

    Grunt out.
    sigpic
    |TG-1st|Grunt
    ARMA Admin (retired)
    Pathfinder-Spartan 5

  • #2
    Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

    I'm a pretty big fan of Damonte's zero-tollerance night the other day. If you aren't here to teamwork, leave. There are plenty of well-intentioned people willing to join our server and work as a team, but the slots are taken up by silly people who are padding their stats or doing silly things.

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    • #3
      Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

      I did see someone being called out in "ALL" chat to the admin. I believe we are suppose to report offenders in SQUAD chat only. Correct me if I am wrong.

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      • #4
        Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

        I apologize for not being around as often in the evening. I have had some hardware issues, but should be returning to full spectating zero-tolerance admin mode soon.

        "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

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        • #5
          Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

          As I posted in the other thread, I share this frustration, though I don't agree that it has become more prevalent in recent weeks or anything. It's actually improved, albeit only slightly.

          I like Damonte's zero tolerance nights too. Yes, this will drive away certain types of "walk ins," but that's okay. It may even mean occasionally kicking someone who might, if cajoled enough, to work with the team. But the admins seem set to at some point take the server unranked which will basically cut off walk ins entirely. Surely if you're willing to basically make it so that only people who are actively searching for a TG experience can find us (best case scenario), you'd be willing to kick without warning those who have already been warned by their SL.

          Anyway, I'd just like to, once again, push the idea of changing the server description to add "teamwork required" at the very, very least (even if "Following Squad Leader and CO orders is MANDATORY" is too many words).

          If I were a walk in to TG, if I didn't end up in a squad with TGers or our other regulars, I wouldn't have any idea that TG was attempting to be anything different. If I ended up as a SL with non-TGers, I would end up with a bunch of lonewolfs. Putting some sort of disclaimer on the front at least tries to set the server apart. It also makes zero tolerance admining seem more fair (though there will be other rules that they aren't aware of... C4 jeeps, abandoning vehicles, shooting out of the UCB).
          .

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          • #6
            Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

            I'm disappointed you didn't enjoy working with myself and the others playing in our SQ last night.

            I made every effort to use the SOP's and tactics of Tactical Gamer to create a fun focused sq.

            I will try harder to up the teamwork of my squads.
            doYouEvenLuftwaffe

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            • #7
              Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

              Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post

              My first two rounds I was happy to find myself in a squad of TGers that provided excellent teamwork and some great tactics.
              PC--I was ecstatic to be in your squad...The two rounds we played were my first two rounds of the night and they are two of the best rounds I've played in BF4 since launch. Squad leading and tactics were superb.

              I usually play support or Engineer and you had me playing medic and even though I was a little of out my comfort zone I loved it. I learned a lot in a short time.

              Sorry for the confusion...
              sigpic
              |TG-1st|Grunt
              ARMA Admin (retired)
              Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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              • #8
                Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                Originally posted by Portable.Cougar View Post
                I'm disappointed you didn't enjoy working with myself and the others playing in our SQ last night.

                I made every effort to use the SOP's and tactics of Tactical Gamer to create a fun focused sq.

                I will try harder to up the teamwork of my squads.
                I don't think Grunt was referring to our squad last night.

                BTW - I had an absolute blast. While we did cap/defend flags last night, we also did a lot of things differently that weren't tied directly to a flag, but we were in support of our team regardless. It is getting outside of the box a little bit that makes playing together on the TG server such fun.

                Get out of the rat race of whack-a-mole flag capping and the game opens up a lot of possibilities. Don't be afraid to try something different. This is what creates the special atmosphere that differentiates our server from others and breathes new life into the game. If you can get 4 people working with you, you can accomplish an awful lot.

                "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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                • #9
                  Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                  Forever the way I was always told to do things as an admin was warn > kick > ban. I did this ALWAYS, unless it was something terribly disrespectful or intent tk'ing. You can't just kick whenever you think someone is doing something wrong. No one joins a server thinking that it will be something different. For them all server are the same, just another place to pub.

                  Now if you want to encourage people to play the TG way, there needs to be a time that you actually tell them how to. And that time comes when you give that first warning and you explain(or if they happen to be communicative in the sqd). Kicking or banning because of every tiny infraction is IMHO counter-intuitive to actually teaching people(that want to) how to play on the TG server.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                    Sorry for the misunderstanding
                    doYouEvenLuftwaffe

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                    • #11
                      Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                      Originally posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0 View Post
                      I don't think Grunt was referring to our squad last night.

                      BTW - I had an absolute blast. While we did cap/defend flags last night, we also did a lot of things differently that weren't tied directly to a flag, but we were in support of our team regardless. It is getting outside of the box a little bit that makes playing together on the TG server such fun.

                      Get out of the rat race of whack-a-mole flag capping and the game opens up a lot of possibilities. Don't be afraid to try something different. This is what creates the special atmosphere that differentiates our server from others and breathes new life into the game. If you can get 4 people working with you, you can accomplish an awful lot.
                      Can you elaborate on this? I have heard the whackamole thing talked about a lot recently. I see you basically apologizing for capping and defending flags. But I am confused. The objective of the game is to capture and defend flags. If you're out in the mountains not exerting any influence on flags, you are likely a detriment to your team.

                      Whackamole as I see it is an unthinking and endless cycle of attacking the "next" flag. But that doesn't mean attacking flags is a bad thing.
                      .

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                      • #12
                        Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                        Sure, I'll explain it.

                        Whack-a-mole is exactly as you describe it: mindless running from one flag to the next, with the flag you just left being capped behind you while you are taking the flag in front of you (most likely recently vacated by the squad now taking the flag you just left). In my opinion, this is an easy trap to fall in to and it happens to a lot of us.

                        What we did last night was a little different. I don't need to go into the details of it, but we were within the framework of defending flags and assaulting flags.

                        I'll give you an example: Golmud. We had a squad consisting of an Assault, 2xEngineer, Recon and Support. We took up a position south of the C flag to harass the enemy armor. We were extremely - extremely - successful at doing this. So successful, at one point the enemy committed 3 tanks, a helicopter, a cruise missile and an APC to attempt to root us out of our position. While we were not directly capping a flag, we were loosely defending C behind us and more importantly we were tying up the heavy assets of the enemy team so that the rest of our team could take and hold flags more easily. This was an incredibly fun round for us because we weren't rushing back and forth between A / B all night (or pick two other flags - doesn't matter). Was this thinking way out of the box? A little bit, certainly not revolutionary by any means but it was different from what I've experienced in 90% or more of my play time in BF4 to date.

                        Most of my play time at TG has been in PR. With that mod, we had incredibly (for BF2 engine) large maps with considerable distance between flags. This allowed us plenty of room for maneuver and indirect support tactics. This is a different game, but there are some things that will carry over nicely if given the opportunity.

                        The close proximity of the flags and the hemorrhage of tickets if you hold 40% of the flags or less (on most maps) makes playing whack-a-mole a necessity for the survival of your team. This seems to perpetuate the "rush" or "zerg" mentality, maybe not for everyone, but for a lot of what I see it does. I guess what I'm advocating, or at least what I found enjoyable for myself (and apparently the others who were in our squad last night) was breaking out of that mold a little bit to find other ways to enjoy the game, all while working within the framework of our rules and primer. In the end, if you're not enjoying your experience then what's the point, right?

                        Hopefully that clears up my prior post.
                        Last edited by disposableHero; 12-04-2013, 12:50 PM. Reason: A lot of grammar and other issues because I'm mentally challenged

                        "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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                        • #13
                          Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                          Originally posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0 View Post
                          Most of my play time at TG has been in PR. With that mod, we had incredibly (for BF2 engine) maps with considerable distance between flags. This allowed us plenty of room for maneuver and indirect support tactics. This is a different game, but there are some things that will carry over nicely if given the opportunity.
                          “From time to time the superstructure of tactics has to be altered or wholly torn down; but the old foundations of strategy so far remain, as though laid upon a rock.” -RADM A.T. Mahan
                          Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                            Originally posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0 View Post

                            Hopefully that clears up my prior post.
                            Just what I was looking for. It's come to my attention that my post might seem like I doubted you in particular were not involved in working toward a flag majority, but I didn't intend that. I really just wanted just what you gave.
                            .

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                            • #15
                              Re: Teamwork and Status Quo of gameplay

                              Originally posted by Zoraster View Post
                              Just what I was looking for. It's come to my attention that my post might seem like I doubted you in particular were not involved in working toward a flag majority, but I didn't intend that. I really just wanted just what you gave.
                              I didn't really take it that way, so no worries.

                              "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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