Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Seriously, what are the rules...

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Seriously, what are the rules...

    Tonight we had an admin say that switching seats to fire a stinger was a kickable offense. No specifying which chopper so I have no idea if he meant you couldn't fire stingers from doors of choppers at all, only if you were in the transport chopper, only if you were the pilot?

    Goodness only knows. I wasn't actually in a chopper at any point, but I pay attention to the text chat since you never know when a new rule will appear.

    I asked if that was a new rule and was informed the Stinger thing wasn't "realistic" and it was "common sense."

    I then asked if that was true of repair tool switching. That got a yes, which a few of us were surprised to hear having seen that constantly on the server.

    Are these arbitrary decisions just lumped under "6) Vehicles must be used realistically, according to their intended design.
    - An F-22 is NOT a disposable troop-transport, and FAVs are not mobile car-bombs." ?


    Does anyone actually know what the rules are on this server?

  • #2
    Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

    I was the admin so I will clarify for you:

    Pilot of the little bird was flying, engaging targets with main guns and rockets then switching seats to fire a stinger. That is not realistic and that is what warranted the warning. The same goes with repair tools you can not switch seats while flying to repair your helicopter.

    And yes, they fall under realistic application of vehicles. You find me the little bird pilot that can fly, then get out of his seat to sit on the skids, fire a stinger, then climb back in his seat to fly and I will eat my shoes.

    That is why it is common sense.

    [unit][squadl][command2]

    KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

      Originally posted by Dredge View Post
      I was the admin so I will clarify for you:

      Pilot of the little bird was flying, engaging targets with main guns and rockets then switching seats to fire a stinger. That is not realistic and that is what warranted the warning. The same goes with repair tools you can not switch seats while flying to repair your helicopter.

      And yes, they fall under realistic application of vehicles. You find me the little bird pilot that can fly, then get out of his seat to sit on the skids, fire a stinger, then climb back in his seat to fly and I will eat my shoes.

      That is why it is common sense.
      But it is a video game, and not even a sim like ARMA. If we applied that logic to all aspects of this game, it wouldn't be Battlefield 4 it would be a different game.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Seriously, what are the rules...

        Originally posted by Hawks_Lead View Post
        But it is a video game, and not even a sim like ARMA. If we applied that logic to all aspects of this game, it wouldn't be Battlefield 4 it would be a different game.
        We still have to make an effort to play the game in a way that is near simulation within the confines of the game engine.
        Just because there isn't a clear rule saying no you can't do that does not mean its desire able gameplay.
        It's about as Gamey as c4ing your tank on to the top of a building and using your tank to snipe jets as they pass by....... It's feasible with the engine but wouldn't exactly be model game play on our server. My question would be to the OP. if you played on our servers for so long, how at this point can you think it's within the confines of the gameplay we try to adhere to?
        "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

          This has been around in a number of titles here at TG, and similarly enforced. In BF2 and 2142, solo-seating attack choppers, (switching from pilot to gunner, firing, and then back to gunner) has never been allowed. It has nothing to with a game being a simulation. It doesn't matter what game we play, something as simple as this really shouldn't warrant a debate.
          |TG-6th|CorpDuty

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

            Originally posted by CorpDuty View Post
            This has been around in a number of titles here at TG, and similarly enforced. In BF2 and 2142, solo-seating attack choppers, (switching from pilot to gunner, firing, and then back to gunner) has never been allowed. It has nothing to with a game being a simulation. It doesn't matter what game we play, something as simple as this really shouldn't warrant a debate.
            Bingo
            "Everyone makes fun of us rednecks with our big trucks and all our guns........until the zombie apocalypse"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

              Really guys? Is this for real? Read the primer (you know, that mandatory document) then read your question again....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                You mean this primer:

                http://www.tacticalgamer.com/tactica...er-primer.html

                A one page document on the basics of what TG is? I think the kid has a legit post/question. Each game, each server, we all strive for tactics and teamwork, and playing the objective. But it can become a little muddled and confusing sometimes when trying to figure out the rules for a certain game, BF4 in this case.


                I agree with the rule discussed, no seat swapping, but I can see why he asked... we play with tactics and teamwork, but do we play how the game should of been made, at least in our opinion, or do we play the game that was given to us, the way it was designed.


                IE: Using the TGM-172, which in game is a wired Anti-tank portable hand-held missile system. 1) IRL it's not a wired missile system, so to follow that rule it should never be used, it's not real, 2) in game you can take out choppers with it, not IRL, unless the chopper is grounded, and 3) IN GAME, you can fire one missile straight up in the air, reload and then fire your second missile at a tank, keeping the sight on target, your 2nd fired missile hits, and then the first one slams in 3 to 5 seconds later. Again not realistic or true in any form, but it's Battlefield 4... That's what I mean by confusion.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-172_SRAW

                Do we play the game we were given with the TG primer as our guide, or do we play the game how we think it should of been, with the TG primer as our guide and bible/holy word. So, why are people jumping out of helicopters, why are we using parachutes to jump down buildings... you see the confusion?


                Also, in the BF4 forum alone, their is 4 sub-forums with tons of info, and the regular forum with tons of stickies, and then the post... information overload, IMO. So I can see why it's easier just to ask your set Q.
                Last edited by Magnum50; 12-15-2013, 10:57 AM. Reason: added link
                Magnum |TG-18th|


                We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                  @Magnum, the question was whether or not its a kickable offense to switch seats to fire stingers.

                  If you need to ask if its a kickable offense you probably shouldn't be doing it on the server. If people would only use that line of thinking......

                  I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                  Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                  J.F.C. Fuller

                  Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                    Originally posted by CorpDuty View Post
                    This has been around in a number of titles here at TG, and similarly enforced. In BF2 and 2142, solo-seating attack choppers, (switching from pilot to gunner, firing, and then back to gunner) has never been allowed. It has nothing to with a game being a simulation. It doesn't matter what game we play, something as simple as this really shouldn't warrant a debate.
                    I would recommend phrasing it that way then. I do remember the no soloing attack choppers rule in BF2. It was a very specific rule that was meant to say no switching seats to fire gunner weapons (namely the TV missile), even though the phrasing could mean no taking off in a chopper alone (which is a good guideline, but not a kickable offense).

                    Now if the rule here is "no seat swapping as pilot," then that should be what is typed out in chat. Swapping seats to fire a stinger applies to all people in a chopper when worded the way it was in chat.

                    Gunners swapping seats to repair as passengers becoming illegal would be quite the shocker to a lot of transport chopper users.

                    So now... Is it a kickable offense to switch from a side gun in a transport chopper to a cargo bay seat, fire a stinger, and then hop back on the minigun?

                    You can read the primer all day long and find no answer to that question. Have to question the realistic mobility of door gunners, the back blast of a stinger, and realistic lock on rates before considering such an action in BF4?

                    I would argue that just as much shoe eating will go on to find a tank driver in real life who can hop out oh his tank instantly with assault rifle in hand, spray at the guy putting C4 on his tank, weld on some fresh reactive panels and get rolling again in less than a minute. But gosh darn if that doesn't happen 3-4 times in an average game to me.


                    This is what I mean. The rules as presented are not clear and intuiting what the rules are apparently depends on your outside knowledge of real world military hardware (thus making it not intuitive).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                      The way I see it.

                      The Primer was written to show the intent of the community. People that play here and want to be part of the community, will instinctively understand the intent of the Primer. They will use their own values to guide them and not need countless rules or a lawyer to tell them what is right and wrong on a TG server.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                        Originally posted by Toddshooter View Post
                        The way I see it.

                        The Primer was written to show the intent of the community. People that play here and want to be part of the community, will instinctively understand the intent of the Primer. They will use their own values to guide them and not need countless rules or a lawyer to tell them what is right and wrong on a TG server.
                        That's all well and good until you start kicking for 5 or 6 people's "own values."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                          If 5 or 6 people who are part of this community and have supposedly read the primer need to be kicked then they probably should not be here! It is really simple.
                          Those that are visiting the server will I am sure be told not to do something and warned before a kick. TG tagged players should know better!!
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                            You misunderstand me. Those 5-6 people are the only ones who "know" the rules being used for kicking because it is based on their internal values. And the rest of us cannot rely on our internal values no matter how much we may have thought they aligned with the primer until we find out what the 5 or 6 people have decided is a kickable offense. (See my above question about gunner seat switching in a transport chopper).

                            Those 5 or 6 are admins, not those getting kicked.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Seriously, what are the rules...

                              Originally posted by Toddshooter View Post
                              The way I see it.

                              The Primer was written to show the intent of the community. People that play here and want to be part of the community, will instinctively understand the intent of the Primer. They will use their own values to guide them and not need countless rules or a lawyer to tell them what is right and wrong on a TG server.
                              Originally posted by Misnomer View Post
                              That's all well and good until you start kicking for 5 or 6 people's "own values."
                              This is why the game admins are selected for their understanding of what the intent of the Primer is, and how it applies to the game title that they help out with. There is extensive discussion to ensure the admins are on the same page when it comes to enforcement of the currently posted rules, which are derived from the Primer which is the overall general guide for all games at the community.

                              So I am not thrilled with your indirect implication that the game admins will enforce the rules according to their own whims. That is simply not the case.

                              Now, all that being said... we will not be laying down granular rules and an extensive list of 'you may do this specific thing' and 'you may not do this specific thing'. No, we're not going to go there. We expect our community members to see that just because a game has a mechanic (such as soloing the little bird, swapping from the pilot seat to another seat and firing a missile while in free fall, leaving no pilot during this time, then swapping back before the helo hits the ground) does not mean that using that mechanic is something we endorse. Our rules are already rather carefully thought out to cover this specific question you brought up. The answer is no, it's not allowed. It is not considered a realistic or intended use of the asset. In some circumstances, it might be considered exploitative.

                              HiTest said it well, and I've said it before as well: If you have to ask the question whether something is allowed... it's probably not and you probably should not do it.

                              If, after all this discussion and explanation, you cannot see how we (the game admins) have derived this opinion from the rule and the Primer, then I simply can't help you. All I can say is that even if you don't agree with the opinion, you must abide by it on our server. Further debate and discussion isn't likely to get you anywhere.

                              Cheers!

                              "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X