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  • Squad Leader Help

    Ok so Lately I've been playing 4-6 rounds at a time, and eventually it seems I get promoted to squad leader, in the past I would immediately vacate the role by leaving the squad and then re-joining so as to give someone else the role, I don't mind taking orders but It's often weird for me to give them, I feel like if my squad is dying (which does happen a good bit) that I'm doing something terribly wrong as if somehow the best squads never die.

    That being said I've had a few of you TGers in my squads lately and I'm looking for any suggestions on being a better squad leader.

    I notice the squad leaders I enjoy working with are very good at communicating and while I think I'm a very good communicator (talking about objectives and enemy positions) I struggle with cardinal directions all the time (not having a mini-map makes that extremely difficult for me apparently).

    I also struggle with knowing when to hold a flag vs when to attack another flag, I feel like if we aren't getting much enemy action we should move on to another flag because more flags = winning, but a lot of the time that's where we run into enemy action, halfway to another flag, so I'm starting to second guess my tactics, I wish we had more commanders for that part to help communicate regarding enemy squad movements and what-not.

  • #2
    Re: Squad Leader Help

    I think you squad lead just fine Digital, Dont second guess yourself or worry what others are thinking. No matter how good a squad lead you are there is only so much you can do as SL, your SM play a vital role in weather or not your squad is successful. I have been playing BF for years and I still make bad decisions, some nights I am in the mood for love and others I am just going through the motions. Dieing is part of the game and some nights the dice just dosnt role in your favor. Everyone has different styles, Some like to constantly be on the move while others like to sit on a flag. The biggest part is situational awareness, and making sure if you are a safe spawn for your squad, sometimes that cant be helped and you will be run off a flag. I try to keep my squad away from the rest of the team and set up where we can give support or make a strong front line. Its not always about flags, its about battlefield. If the team has the flags needed to win I try not to spread the team to thin that the enemy gets behind us. I am a terrible shot as of late so I try to hang back and let my squad do the dirty work, constantly checking the map and staying a safe spawn. Some nights I feel like being in the thick off things and take a flag surrounded by enemies, you have to get a feel for what your squad is capable of. Many nights my KDR is like 5 and 20 or worse but my squad is doing there job and through there actions kick me up the board in points. I always spam the spot key which usually gets me killed cause I will spot before firing on an enemy (bad habbit) but I am one of those people who dont really care about KDR, I can have just as much fun getting mowed down in a hard fight, I like being a target lol. But no one likes dieing on spawn, it happens but you want to keep that to a minimum. Some nights it feels the whole team has the same idea and everyone ends up on the same flag, I try to limit that and worry about the flags closest to spawn and push forward only if a flag is needed, hoping to many flags will result in a guessing game for where the enemy is and where your teams squads are going. So for me it is 1. Slow your role 2. sit reps 3. safe spawn - the three S's lol.

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    • #3
      Re: Squad Leader Help

      I'll expand on one point - allowing your squad to do the work. I love frantic combat and moving forward, so as SL I've learned that you need to flip that mentality and take on a slower, more supportive role.
      You can set the orders but don't be the combat spearhead. Hang back a notch to allow your squad to spawn on you as many times as needed in a safe, tactical position close to the cap area. When the area is clear enough you can move in, mop up any remainders, revive your teammates and pick up those cap points.
      As for second guessing yourself, just don't. In the absence of commander's overview your best informed decision is always the correct one.

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      • #4
        Re: Squad Leader Help

        Some really good responses here.

        Here's my take, I am no expert, but we all have our ideas. Almost everything is situational, what you do and how you do it is influenced by so many factors. Your personal style and strengths, the terrain, your ultimate goal or objective whilst playing, the ticket situation (when attempting to win the game), the terrain and flag layout and the opposing team's disposition.

        However there are a few things that I always bear in mind when squad leading.

        I like to influence more than 1 flag at a time where possible. At the very least I like to hold one flag and be able to positively impact the next nearest.

        You can do this in a couple of ways. If it's quiet period on the flag you hold you can split your squad and send a couple of guys to support another squads assault on the next flag. Alternatively you can simply engage targets at range on the adjacent flag from our current position to harrass, suppress and distract the enemy. Often times a squad getting pinged from 300 yards will go firm where they are and attempt to outshoot you in a plinking war which can lead to them getting scope locked/tunnel vision. This can help your fellow squad approach the objective unnoticed and allow them to get into close quarters with the enemy before they realise what is happening. At the very least you may well suppress and kill a couple of them and aid the assault.

        I also make a point of checking the 'flow of battle' on the map, primarily the surrounding flags, as this tells me where friendlies are dying, where the enemy is likely to be spawning/reinforcing from. This allows our squad to prepare for an assault accordingly and 'face up' if we intend to stay and hold that flag. Now of course people will surprise you, para dropping in or there will be that squad that does a super wide flank. That's not the point. It's about probability and the majority of the traffic coming your way will be from the obvious point of origin, hence that is what you need to prioritise your defensive positioning for. The rest, the unpredictable stuff, has to be dealt with by good situational awareness amongst your squad and communication.

        The flow of battle and flow of movement is also another important factor in identifying critical areas between flags, the dead ground. These areas can be almost as important as the flags during a round as they represent the avenues of approach to the objectives. If you are able to seize a flag with dead ground around it and line of sight onto the next objective you now have your firing lanes and kill zones plus the ability to reach out and harass the next flag or help defend it if held. You've extended your area of influence quite considerably and also strengthened your teams hold on the adjacent flag. Interconnected flags and coordinated squads who are aware of the dead ground around their flags are quite hard to dislodge and a solid two flag hold is a great base for any team to build on.

        As regards personal movement as the SL I'd say I am moderately cautious and that comes down to playing to personal strengths and trying to mitigate weaknesses so you can effectively lead the squad. Whilst I am ok in CQB you most likely won't ever see me barrelling onto a flag with a PDW spraying up the place or bulldozing forward with an LMG pointed at the ground on full auto. It doesn't interest me and I'm better at other things, plus potentially because of that it can hurt my squad. I am decent at mid to long range engagements with an assault rifle however and I am also pretty organised with my movement and observation. I do my best to plug the gaps in an assault and feed intel to my squad as they assault. I stay out of people's firing lanes and try to kill the targets they miss or cannot see from their position. Essentially I am playing a type of support/overwatch role.

        So if my squad holds an objective but it becomes time to move then I will be first off the flag. This does two things, it gets the squad moving and sets our direction of movement and pace. As we approach the next objective I will slow my own pace of movement down and increase the amount of observation I am doing, looking for cover as we approach and any defending enemy that are directly facing us. The squad will catch me up at this point and I will then go firm at the nearest cover and push them past me to begin their assault. Now I am on overwatch and I am looking for defenders who are going to hinder our advance. My job is then to call out targets and try and eliminate those threats so my squad doesn't lose momentum and get caught in the open. During this I will be calling out targets on the objective, pattern/direction of movement etc to try and give the squad a visual picture of what they will encounter when they breach the objective. As they assault, dependent on progress, I will move onto the flag. Sometimes it may be necessary to hang back and provide a spawn (though that can feed a ticket sink situation), at other times it may be prudent to add another body to the mix. Often coming in behind the assault force can really help mop up as you will encounter defenders respawning off an SL on the objective (if the flag is turning) which can lead you direct to that spawn point and allow you to kill him. Again, all situational.

        Sounds more complicated than it is and it actually happens pretty fast and naturally in game.

        Never second guess yourself too hard. Sure it's good to try and learn from your 'mistakes' but people often get blinded by that and then only learn from their mistakes. This can lead to repeating the same tactics over and over until they start failing. If you're smart you'll learn from your victories too. Far too easy to assume something went well because you did everything right rather than the potential reality that you got lucky, the other squad made a critical mistake/misjudgement or your squad simply outshot the other on that given day.

        Whatever you're doing, talk to your squad and get them to talk to you. Information is a two way street and by asking questions you gain extra pairs of eyes. If your squad is not talking to you ask them what they see, where are the threats etc, most people chime in when they know you are going to listen. If you issue your orders after doing that people are more invested and more likely to communicate further.

        Last of all make sure you are having fun!


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        • #5
          Re: Squad Leader Help

          By no means I am a good squad leader but I end up doing quite a bit of it so here are some things I try to do:

          1) Be a good spawn point. Staying alive and being a good spawn point is vital especially when attacking a flag. When a flag is heavily contested, I try to stick to the outside of a flag area and circle around providing new avenues for spawning squad members to attack from.

          2) Use the big map. This will help you with cardinal directions. When you bring up the big map you can easily tell what way is N,E,S,W.
          I try to use the larger map to understand what flags other squad leaders are attacking and defending. The map gives me a good idea if I should attack or defend and as Wick's stated it helps understand the flow of the round. If your team has 1 flag and you and a few other squads are getting nowhere attacking a flag, check the map and move to a flag that you think will not be defended.

          3) Use your squad's strengths. If I know I have more sharpshooters in my squad, I might try to be aggressive and cap one of the more popular flags or a back flag (A or F on Zavod, D on Caspian, D on Alta etc). If my squad members are better in armor, I might have them support friendly squads.

          4) Don't be afraid to give specific orders. If you want certain classes, assign certain people to defend, or hold spawn...let them know. If people are not communicating about enemy positions, speak up and tell them to. People are more than willing to listen.

          5) But on the flip side also rely on squad members for advice and opinions for next objective. At the end of the day, the game is meant to be fun for everyone. If you have been defending a flag the entire round, ask your squadmates if they want to attack the next round.

          Best way to learn is keep on doing it. Practice makes perfect!

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          • #6
            Re: Squad Leader Help

            I don't know if I've been in a squad where you led, cassette, but I've played with you enough to know you communicate well and are perfectly able to lead. Don't second guess yourself, and don't give up SL when you get the chance. You won't get any better if you don't do it.

            Everything said here was good info, I just wanted to add one thing that goes along with Wicks' idea of the flow of battle. Rebind the map key to something easy to press, I use a mouse thumb button. We don't always have solid commanders that give orders and talk to SLs, so being able to keep an eye on what other SLs are doing in other parts of the map is very important. You'll also get better with the orientation and directions on each map.

            Almost any time there's a lull in battle I have the map open and I'm watching what everyone is doing so I can decide if I want to keep holding the current flag or it's a good idea to attack another one. I'll hear squad mates call out that some other flag is going down, but I can tell they're only looking at the icons by the score because I'm looking at the map and there's 2 other SLs on that flag working to get it back. Trust your team to get flags they're working on, don't just leave yours undefended and run all over the map because you see another one start to blink.

            Oh, and know your weaknesses. My biggest one is that I'm far too aggressive. I don't sit way back like E-Leader, and I probably never will. So if I'm going to a hotly contested back flag, I bring a beacon so I know my squad has a place to spawn when I inevitably die.

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            • #7
              Re: Squad Leader Help

              I don't consider myself to be a great SL, but I do have good rounds now and then with my squads. I found that one of the most important things is to pay attention to what your teammates are doing and the bleed of the map.

              A lot of times I will cap a flag with my squad, and wait to see what happens on the rest of the map. If my team is putting bleed on the enemy, I tell my squad to hold defense and call out enemies because with the bleed you have the advantage to win the round. If we're trying to gain back bleed to the other side, we'll push up.

              It's all situational, pay attention to the map, pay attention to your team, your squad, etc.

              But in the end, it's like someone said: your decision is the best decision
              |TG6|Flarionice
              Former Irregular, Former member of TG 3rd Special Forces Detachment

              Please don't call me Florence.

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              • #8
                Re: Squad Leader Help

                Work with other squads, work with armor. Use the squad leader channel. The game is like a puzzle; every person has a piece, squad leaders are cool enough to get a corner piece. Working with other squads gives you the big picture. That's only advice I can give that will help you every time. Everything else comes with experience and situational awareness. Keep at it and everything will come to you in time.

                Try commander sometime, you don't need to be a Patton to command. Just provide intel and squad leaders will love you. It helps with the big picture when you get back to SLing.

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                • #9
                  Re: Squad Leader Help

                  i really like to SL, but rarely get the chance. so i also end up second guessing myself, (especially with other TGers in squad) but i keep reminding myself that even a bad plan is better than no plan at all. if you do find yourself grasping at straws, ask your squadmates for their input. asking for options and then using your authority to decide which is best is a very valid form of leadership in my book.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Squad Leader Help

                    All great responses and tips. I've even learned a few things.

                    Another thing: Be observant and take cues/learn from other SL's when you play with them - in terms of their tactics, how they run their squads and so on. That's what I've done. I've had the opportunity of playing under the leadership of a handful of good SL's here at TG and I've learned a thing or two from them. Everybody has their own style. Take pieces of it with you and fuse it into your own style. Just like music, if you're a musician.

                    Don't be afraid to issue/request kits. Most of the time, I don't say a whole lot about kits, because alot of times, the squad turns out to be well rounded in terms of kit choice. But I will speak up and request a kit, if I feel that it's needed.

                    My biggest weakness is getting into the thick of the action with my squad. I've been trying to be more conscious about hanging back a little bit to be a safe spawn point. Strengths - not playing wack-a-mole, trying to take the less obvious path to an objective, avoiding the meat grinder and objectives where half the team is (even if that means trekking across the map to the enemy's back flags to harass them there and keep them occupied), and being conscious of the big picture. If we've got bleed, I'm parking my squad on whatever flag I designated and we're staying put until otherwise. No sense in running off to grab those other stray flags, when we've already got 3 or 4 out of 5. I've been in a few rounds where we completely flipped the table after being down by a good margin of tickets and came out winning, because the team finally managed to hold down their flags and stay put, achieve ticket bleed in our favor and keep it going.

                    And communication, communication, communication. It also helps when you have a good commander at the helm, feeding you intel and watching your back. Don't worry about bad decisions. Like JHemp said, a bad plan is better than no plan at all. I'd rather have an SL with a bad plan, than an SL with absolutely no plan.
                    |TG|FullMetalDrummer

                    That one drummer guy who spins his hair and hits things with sticks

                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: Squad Leader Help

                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: Squad Leader Help

                        And this . . .

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                        • #13
                          Re: Squad Leader Help

                          Ladies and gentlemen...TG's very own E-Male :P
                          |TG-6th|CorpDuty

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                          • #14
                            Re: Squad Leader Help

                            Indeed!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Squad Leader Help

                              When was the last TGU course on squad leading?



                              Interested in listening to guitar playing and a good conversation, look for me on TS.

                              "Hope is for the weak. I hope for nothing. I work for things. That is the only way for events to unfold." -Cleverbot

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